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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ar Reachtaíocht a Gealladh - Questions on Promised Legislation

Abortion access for fatal foetal abnormality

Summary

Deputies Coppinger and Bríd Smith pressed for immediate intervention in an individual abortion case, arguing the hospital was not implementing the law and that the woman should not be forced to travel. The Ceann Comhairle repeatedly ruled the discussion out of order as an individual medical case, while the Tánaiste said the law was clear and the matter should be handled by doctors in hospital.

I wish to raise what I believe is the first test case for the new abortion legislation. I have been contacted by a woman who has a fatal foetal abnormality that has been certified by two consultants. It appears that the board of the Coombe Hospital is refusing her constitutional right, that we all voted for, to have an abortion at a time she chooses. Instead, they have told her she must wait another four weeks to see if there is a spontaneous miscarriage.

This is precisely the case that was brought to national attention and that led to pressure and demands for repeal of the eighth amendment. At 13 weeks, this woman went for her 12-week scan. They could clearly see at that point that the organs of the foetus were outside of the body. They brought her back a week later and that was fully confirmed when they got a better image. One doctor, her consultant, and then another consultant were brought in and stated that there is a fatal foetal abnormality. A week later, the matter went to the board and the board overruled that assertion.

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The Deputy's time is up.

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I ask the Ceann Comhairle's discretion on behalf of this woman. This is a very important case.

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It is very important but it is also without precedent that we would get involved in discussing a medical situation.

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This is about the law. If the Ceann Comhairle does not mind-----

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The Deputy is not describing the law. The Deputy is describing a medical situation that is very distressing------

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A main maternity hospital in the capital city of this country is refusing this woman her constitutional right when two doctors certify what is very clearly a fatal foetal abnormality. It would seem that it is because of the chilling effect of criminalisation that maternity hospitals are acting in this way. It should not be forgotten that the Rotunda is only enforcing the law to 11 weeks, a matter about which the Minister has written to the hospital.

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Thank you, Deputy.

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I am asking the Tánaiste to get the Minister to meet this woman today. She should not have to pay to travel, which is what she is talking about doing if she does not have her constitutional rights affirmed.

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I call Deputy Bríd Smith on the same matter.

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I spoke to this woman, Emma Connors, last night. She is from Clondalkin and she is pregnant with a much-wanted baby but she has been told by her doctors, "You can go to England". Her words to me were, "This is not what I voted for. I have constitutional rights". What is the Tánaiste going to do about the matter today - not next week, but today?

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Thank you, Deputy.

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She is finding it hard to sleep, knowing the condition her much-wanted child is in. She wants a termination. She is entitled to it. This country voted for it.

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We cannot and will not have in this Chamber a situation in which individual cases are brought up here and Ministers called upon to adjudicate or comment upon medical situations. It is completely----

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It is the law. It is the legislation.

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The law is one thing. Discussing individual medical circumstances is not appropriate and not in order.

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It is the law. This is the first case we have.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

The law is now clear in this area. The Government, with the support of many in this House, passed legislation in a way that was consistent with what we promised we would do in the context of the referendum that was held. The law is clear. I agree with the Ceann Comhairle. I do not think it is appropriate to raise a tragic case-----

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We should not have a tragic case.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

-----of somebody who is clearly under a lot of stress. This case needs to be dealt with appropriately by doctors in a hospital, not on the floor of the Dáil.

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They are not implementing the law. That is the point. That is why we raised it.

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We would not be raising it if this woman did not want us to. She wants us to. She wants to be named. She wants a termination. Can you imagine what she is going through?

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There are patients in hospitals across the country who might want various circumstances that they find themselves in discussed on the floor of the House. However, that has not happened and it is not going to happen now.

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They are raised every day. They are constantly raised. This is outrageous. The is the first test case to give women their rights.

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Excuse me, you have made your point. You are out of order.

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On a point of order, we are entitled to raise promised legislation, including when a law is not being implemented.

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Excuse me.

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You have overstepped now, if you do not mind me saying it. We are entitled to raise new legislation that is not being implemented.

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Please. Both Deputies are more than entitled to raise-----

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However, you both raised matters that are not relevant to promised legislation-----

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-----and you took twice the time allowed under Standing Orders to do it.

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This legislation has been promised for years. Now we have it and it is not being implemented.

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Resume your seats, please.

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A Ceann Comhairle, you have had milk sheds and cow sheds and you have had cases raised here every day. This is new legislation that the entire country voted for.

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Please resume your seat.

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There are problems with it and we are entitled, as Deputies, to bring it up here.

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I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

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I am amazed that you said that. We are entitled to bring this up.

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You are amazed that I said what?

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You said we cannot comment on individual cases. Comment on the law. Comment on the law that women are being deprived of - their constitutional rights. Comment on that.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I have commented on the law. The law is very clear in this area.

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Is the Tánaiste going to contact the maternity hospitals about implementing the law?

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I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

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