I want to return to the issue of the nurses' strike. I find it very hard to understand the Taoiseach's thinking. What is his strategy, or does he have any strategy at all for resolving this issue? Sometimes I think it is more about being seen to be tough than playing his part as leader of this country in dealing with a very serious and pressing issue. The question must be asked whether the Taoiseach actually wants a solution. If so, what action, if any, is he taking to achieve one? The Government has been engaging in a campaign of consistently denying the seriousness of the shortage of nurses in the health service. It has also sought to misrepresent the case being made. At no stage did the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, lodge a pay claim of 12%, or of any other percentage for that matter. Could the Taoiseach please stop saying that? The INMO has not lodged a pay claim so I call on him to stop misrepresenting the situation.

The nurses state that they want to engage with the Government on a number of key issues relating to the future of the health service. They want to engage in respect of the significant problems relating to recruitment and retention and the implications of these for the health service as it operates currently. They want to engage in respect of the fact that there is now only one applicant for every four vacancies in nursing. How do we address that? They want to engage in respect of the fact that the health service is spending over €100 million per year on agency nurses. There is no sense to that whatsoever. Not only are there major problems regarding the cost of that, there are also various issues in terms of a lack of consistency, a lack of stable teams in hospitals and so on. Agency nursing, apart from being expensive, is not a solution. The nurses also want to engage in respect of the fact that the HSE has an expensive unit which is supposed to recruit nurses from all over the world but which has not been very successful in its efforts. There have been a couple of expensive and long-running campaigns aimed at trying to bring Irish nurses back home. However, those nurses have not be available to return.

That there is an issue in the context of pay parity cannot be denied. There is also a point about graduate pay. The Taoiseach cannot defend the fact that there is a €7,000 gap in pay in circumstances where nurses are required to have the same academic qualifications as allied health professionals. Does he accept that this is a genuine issue which has not been resolved or addressed over many years and which must be contemplated in the context of any attempt to tackle the difficulty we face?

I thank the Deputy. I am really not sure who is misrepresenting the facts here. I heard the Deputy state that there is no cost-increasing claim.

There is no pay claim.

Pay parity is, by definition, a cost-increasing claim and it is one that is not accepted by other unions. They have indicated that in writing to their members and also to Government. It has never been the case that all of those who have four-year degrees are paid the same. Many people in various professions - accounting, teaching, etc. - have such degrees. It has never been the case that because one's degree takes three or four years to complete, one gets paid the same as everyone else who pursued a similar degree. To my recollection, that has never been the case.

The front-line-----

As stated earlier - I appreciate that I am repeating myself but the questions are the same so it is only reasonable that I be allowed do so - those of us on the Government benches have no doubt about the strength of feeling among nurses and midwives regarding their terms and conditions. We have no doubt at all about their resolve and their willingness to strike and strike again. We also have no doubt that the public will be very much behind them. We absolutely want to resolve this matter. We are willing to engage, as is the norm, through the WRC and the Labour Court, the State bodies that have been set up to resolve disputes of this nature. However, that can only be done within certain parameters. Any resolution has to be affordable for the taxpayer. I cannot justify borrowing money to fund pay increases. It has to be fair to other public servants, including those who are not on strike, those with whom we have a deal which has been adhered to and those who work in the health sector as well. It also has to be fair to patients.

The Taoiseach is quoting the public service stability agreement, PSSA, quite a lot. That agreement allows for additional measures to address problems with recruitment and retention. In fact, clause 4 specifically allows for Government action in respect of those two issues. The Government needs to engage. The General Secretary of congress, Patricia King, has been reported as stating that a resolution can be found within the PSSA. Ms King is probably the most experienced union leader in the country. She has more industrial relations experience than the entire Cabinet. Will the Taoiseach agree to set up a meeting with her as a matter of urgency in order to examine how this issue can be addressed, how we can break the current logjam and how we can get people to the table for talks, a matter to which the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection has referred. We must have genuine engagement on this matter and the employers, who are represented by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, must come to the table with a proper attitude rather than the kind of dismissive and disingenuous attitude they have displayed up to now. This matter is in the Taoiseach's hands. He can address it and he can stop further strikes taking place. Will he make a significant intervention and meet Patricia King in order to examine strategies for resolving this issue?

I have met Patricia King and I have spoken to her about this issue. I would have no difficulty meeting or speaking to her again. That is the way we engage with the trade unions. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, and I, as Head of Government, engage regularly with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, on issues such as this. Such engagement will continue.

We are discussing this particular issue-----

Yes.

-----not "issues such as this". Will the Taoiseach meet Patricia King?

It is not my practice to organise meetings in the Chamber and I do not think the Deputy-----

It is the Taoiseach's responsibility-----

-----should be organising meetings for third parties-----

-----to take action to avert further strikes.