I also take issue with the Estimates not being published. We need to see those. There are too many issues around the Covid payments. We know that they were rushed in and every effort was made but there are too many anomalies. Let us face it, people have been overpaid and now we will run out of money to pay the real people who need it. We need to see the Estimates and the spokespersons of the groups in the Oireachtas need to get a decent and full briefing by the Minister. I also have issues about tomorrow's business but that is another matter.

Does anyone else wish to comment on today's proposed business?

I wish to say something on the briefing as silence is consent. I am of the same opinion that we require a commitment that there will be a full briefing. This is a huge sum and we must be fully apprised of it, and in good time, before people can debate the issue.

Can the Taoiseach address these matters?

Sorry?

The Taoiseach was on the phone.

Members are saying that they should have a briefing-----

Please.

On a point of order.

No.

The Ceann Comhairle will not even listen.

No, please. Please.

Are we to come here for the fun of it?

Please.

The Ceann Comhairle will not even listen.

Deputy McGrath, please.

I was distracted momentarily by my phone.

Momentarily?

We will allow the Taoiseach to answer. Will it be possible to give a guarantee to the Opposition Members that they will have a detailed briefing on the Estimates? Is that to be prior to the proposal being moved?

Yes.

While I am open to correction, I understand that this technical motion allowing for publication of the Estimate, which is to be taken without debate, will not be taken until after questions to the Taoiseach. I propose that we take it now, in order that we can allow the Estimate to be published with a proviso from the Taoiseach guaranteeing that there will be sufficient oral briefing for Opposition spokespeople, given the importance of this.

For clarity, this is an Estimate which is being presented to the House on a no-policy change basis. If any changes are to be made to the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, in future, the Government has not made that decision. Like many Estimates in the past, this allows the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to continue to pay all social welfare payments - pensions, disability, carers, one-parent family, PUP, all of it - beyond 8 June when the Department will reach 80% of its funding ceiling. If this is not passed, it will not be possible for the Department to continue to pay any social welfare or pension payment from 8 June. It is done on a no-policy change basis; all we are asking the House is for authorisation to keep paying those payments.

Will there be consultation------

Sorry, I need-----

Will the Deputy wait just a minute? Will there be consultation with Opposition spokespersons, as Members seek? Will there be a briefing on the Estimate content?

I am sure that can be arranged but it literally is that simple. Nobody is being asked to vote for any legislation or change to the pandemic unemployment payment. No decision has been made on that by Government. This is an Estimates motion to allow the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to continue to pay pensions and other welfare payments from 8 June because if it is not passed, the Department will meet its 80% ceiling and cannot pay any payments. In normal times, and I appreciate these are not normal times, this is the kind of thing that would be passed by the House after a committee hearing of an hour or an hour and a half, probably with very limited debate and no vote on it.

I fully appreciate that Deputies will want to raise and discuss other issues but the only question being asked of the House is to pass this Estimate in order that all social welfare payments can continue to be paid from 8 June on a no-policy change basis.

Deputy Cullinane is getting up and that is great, but could he just explain something to the House, or perhaps to me, as I may be being a little obtuse on this?

Yes.

He is proposing that we take the motion now, rather than at 2 p.m. What is the difference between taking it now and taking it at 2 p.m.?

My understanding is that the motion will allow for the Estimates to be published, so the longer we delay taking the motion, the longer it will take for the Estimates to be published.

Does the Deputy have any reason to believe two hours will make a difference?

Because we need a briefing. As for having it in two hours, we should have had the briefing already. This is going to happen tomorrow.

That is the briefing, a Cheann Comhairle. I appreciate other people will want to talk about other issues.

No, it is not. If I could just make the fundamental point that the Taoiseach missed; he conceded that these Estimates are on a no-change basis. If that is the case, then the two most fundamental payments that are on the minds of people who lost their jobs, namely, the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, and the wage subsidy scheme, are to end in June.

Please.

That is the reality.

That is relevant to the debate itself, not on the Order of Business.

The Estimates will then be obsolete.

It is not relevant to the Order of Business.

I am happy to clarify that, a Cheann Comhairle. As I have already said in this House, a week ago, if not two weeks ago, it is the intention of the Government to extend the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, and the wage subsidy scheme but that is a separate issue. A Cabinet decision has not been made on that yet. That will have to be done, probably some time next week. All we are asking the House to do tomorrow is to vote on a social welfare Estimate to allow us to continue to pay existing social welfare payments and pensions from 8 June. Because of the massive rise in unemployment, the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection is running out of money and we need an Estimate passed in order that it can make those payments on 8 June.

I wish to take the Taoiseach up very briefly on the comment he has just made. I believe it is bizarre that we would consider an Estimate on Thursday which has implications for the rest of the year and yet Members are not to be provided with information as to the implications of that until there is a Cabinet decision next week. It was my understanding that we would have some clarity on both the PUP and the wage subsidy scheme in advance of considering the Estimate here on Thursday. The Taoiseach is now telling us that that is not the case and I think it makes a farce of what we are to consider on Thursday.

Hear, hear.

I think the Taoiseach said he would arrange a briefing. Did he say that?

The Minister, Ms Doherty, is not here but I am sure she would be happy to provide a briefing to Opposition Members later on today. That is not a problem but I wish to clarify that it is the intention of the Government to extend the pandemic unemployment payment beyond 8 June and the wage subsidy scheme as well. The Government has yet to make a decision on to when they are extended but that is not what the Estimate Vote is about; it is about allowing the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to continue to pay all existing pension and welfare payments after 8 June, because the money runs out then.

We need to bring this discussion to a conclusion.

I do not want to labour the point. We all understand that. We all want to ensure that all payments are continued, as in the normal course of events, but this will probably be a huge overrun or demand. We all understand that but we need to have accountability. We need the Minister to provide a proper briefing in order that we know exactly where we are going. We are very much putting the cart before the horse. That is not fair or right. I do not think the Taoiseach understands where we are coming from on this issue. We do not want to delay the Estimate and we do not want to deny anybody payments but we want to see where we are going and to cut our cloth according to our measure. We must understand what we are doing.

It would be helpful if the Taoiseach was able to give us a guarantee that there will be a verbal briefing today. I am sure he appreciates that this is an important part of our work here in the Dáil. We all accept that we are in unprecedented times. We have a Minister who is not elected. We have a caretaker Government. We have our job to do. A briefing needs to take place.

Following on from Deputy Naughten's point, which I also made, it is ludicrous that a decision has not been made on those other payments. We are being asked to vote on a Revised Estimate when hundreds of thousands of workers are concerned about what will happen. The Taoiseach has said there may be changes and there may be an extension to the payments.

We cannot have that debate now.

A Cabinet decision should have been made prior to the preparation of the Revised Estimates. The Government then could have come before the Dáil and we could have had the debate on what the changes would be. Instead, that is hanging over the heads of all of those workers who need certainty at this time. That is deeply unfortunate. This motion should be taken with the proviso that we will get a briefing.

If the Taoiseach will wait a minute, we will hear from the final two Members.

I would appreciate it if the Taoiseach would respond to my inquiry as well.

He will.

He has not done so far. My point concerns the procedures and the schedule for this week. This schedule is a sham. Commitments to transparency relating to issues such as the expert advisory group to NPHET are made in the House and then they are just ignored.

The Deputy has made that point.

The point of this place is basic transparency and accountability. If I ask for the minutes of the expert advisory group for two months, am promised them time and time again and never get them, something is wrong. I want the Taoiseach to tell the Minister for Health to publish the minutes of the expert advisory group. We need to know what the experts told NPHET.

That is not relevant to the Order of Business before us.

The decision tomorrow will be to give the permission of the House in relation to the Revised Estimates. There is scope to make subsequent changes. We need to properly understand that in advance of tomorrow's debate. That is why there must be an absolute commitment to a briefing. None of us wants to hold this business up. We all understand its importance. None of us sees this as normal. We are dealing with a very abnormal situation.

I thank Deputy Boyd Barrett. I will pass on his concerns to the Minister for Health and ask him to fulfil that commitment if it was made. I did not make that commitment, nor did I hear it, so it is difficult for me to comment on it.

The Taoiseach did hear it-----

I will follow up on it.

I really hope that nobody in the House is trying to sow concern or worry among people who are in receipt of the pandemic unemployment payment. People who are in receipt of the payment will continue to get it beyond 8 June. I can give that assurance to the House. The economy is only now slowly opening up. The payment will have to be extended. Nobody needs to worry. As Members know, the pandemic unemployment payment expires if a recipient is offered his or her job back, but with that proviso. Anyone who has not been offered his or her job back will continue to receive the payment beyond June. This Government or the new Government will have to make a decision as to how long that will be extended. We will also have to deal with some of the anomalies of which people are already aware. A certain number of part-time workers are now receiving more in the pandemic unemployment payment every week than they did in January and February, before the pandemic happened.