Level 2 confusion and NPHET advice
Deputy Shortall argued the new system was muddled, with talk of "level 2.5" and unclear advice for Dublin, and she pressed for publication of the NPHET advice. The Taoiseach insisted there was no level 2.5, said Dublin-specific measures followed published advice, defended the testing response, and said he had no objection to publishing the advice.
Anybody tuning into the press conference this morning expecting to get clarity and coherent advice will have been bitterly disappointed. The press conference today brought a Government message that was confused and extremely confusing to the public. The new plan was supposed to provide clarity about the five levels of risk, yet on the first day of the announcement, the Government decided to muddy the waters by talking about level two and a bit. People wanted direction and political leadership. People are worried and concerned about the rising rate of the virus and they want clear advice and coherence from the Government. They certainly did not get that this morning. In the two areas for which the Government has direct responsibility, it was found to be seriously wanting. The first of those is the principal part the Government should be playing in the fight against Covid-19, namely, putting in place a timely and effective testing and tracing system.
The Government has known this from the start, and at no point has it got to the stage where we had an effective system that was able to turn around testing and tracing in a timely manner at the level required. We heard just last week that the HSE is in the process of recruiting 700 staff. The Minister for Health stated this morning that thousands of staff will be recruited at some point in the future. The Government has not done its part of the deal by getting the testing and tracing in place, and the public cannot do anything about that. It is the Government's responsibility.
The second area the Government ignored completely this morning is that of international travel. It has effectively parked that, waiting to hear from the EU, until the middle of October. In the meantime, is anyone in charge of international travel? Judging by the figures, it seems that nobody is.
What are the specific criteria for categorising counties as being in one of the five levels? Additionally, what are the specific criteria for counties moving from one level to another? I refer to specifics such as the rate of the virus, the rate of increase and so on.
What does it mean to be at level 2.5, or level 2 and a bit? Where can the public in Dublin, who desperately want to play their part in tackling the virus now because it is at such dangerous levels, get information on what being at level 2.5 means? It is not on the Government website and it was not provided this morning. Where can they find out the new regulations that apply in Dublin?
In respect of the rates in Dublin, why is the Government treating Dublin as one homogenous area? The rates in Dublin vary from 42 to 131 per 100,000. There is a strong case for localised data on an electoral division basis weekly or at least fortnightly. Why will the Government not provide those data and enable people to play their part in working together as neighbourhoods in fighting this virus?
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The Taoiseach must accept-----
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I will accept any constructive criticism. There is no level 2.5. The Deputy should not pretend there is or create that language because it simply does not exist.
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It is normal procedure here to allow me to answer the questions that Deputies ask. I have answered the Deputy. There is no such thing as level 2.5, as she knows well. I said earlier that NPHET advice came prior to the adoption by the Government of the new plan. The Deputy knows that. There are two issues, namely, wet pubs and people attending matches in stadia with capacities of more than 5,000 people. They are the two issues that deviate from level 2 as now adopted by the Government. That is it.
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That is it. There is no level 2.5 or anything like it. NPHET will come forward with advice on Thursday and I hope and trust that the Deputy will accept whatever decisions we have to take in respect of Dublin, as per the advice from NPHET. I have already begun to see, in the question about different locations in Dublin, people trying to wheedle out of any issues that might arise. The acting Chief Medical Officer - not the Government - is very clear on the application of measures throughout Dublin and on taking Dublin as one homogenous unit, one entire area. He has stated there is only one area of Dublin whose rate is appreciably lower than those of the rest, namely, Dublin South. That is the information he has given me and we can publish all the figures. There is no issue with that. The Deputy should not bring forward a fallacy to suggest there are some significant differences, or that only some areas of Dublin are particularly bad and the rest are okay. That is not what we are being told by NPHET-----
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That is not what I am saying.
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That is the implication in what the Deputy said about localised responses. The acting Chief Medical Officer is very adamant-----
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-----that the virus is throughout Dublin city and county. There is no getting away from that.
The specific criteria are in the plan. There are seven or eight criteria that NPHET will use to make a decision in respect of a particular county or nationally.
There are further descriptors of what those might be in terms of numbers per 100,000, the R number, the transmission of the virus in a given county and a variety of other criteria which NPHET will decide upon and advise on. The plan is very clear and there is flexibility and discretion built into it. Moving from different levels is very serious. The Deputy can go on about the particular issue around the wet pubs in Dublin as somehow constituting something huge in terms of the plan-----
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I did not say anything about the pubs.
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The alternative is Dublin moving to level 3 overnight without any advice from NPHET to that effect. That is a very serious step to take for a lot of people. We need to be mindful of that. That can await any county and, therefore, NPHET has to advise in regard to that, following on from the modelling and everything else that will be necessary to make such a recommendation to Government at a given time.
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Like thousands of other people, I listened to the press conference this morning and I found it extremely confusing. In regard to Dublin, people in Dublin desperately want to fight this virus and they want clear advice. The Taoiseach said this morning that the country is in level 2 yet the level 2 regulations do not apply to people in Dublin. Dublin is not in level 3, so what level is it in? The term level 2.5 or 2 plus a bit applies because the message is confusing. Dublin is not in level 2, so what level is it in? One cannot help but think the issue is a lack of political leadership and courage in decisions around this area.
There has been only one briefing of the Opposition parties since the end of April. The Government is leaving the Opposition completely outside of this area. It is not engaging with the Opposition or taking advice from a wider circle. On the Taoiseach's other point with regard to NPHET, the Government set down the regulations in the five-level plan yet each level, practically, is qualified by the statement that if NPHET changes the advice the plan will change. How can the Government blame people for being confused about what is being said? It is entirely confusing.
Will the Taoiseach commit to publishing the latest advice from NPHET this evening?
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The advice from NPHET has been published today, including in respect of Dublin. NPHET will meet again on Thursday-----
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Sorry, has it been published today? I looked for it this morning but I did not find it.
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Yes, for the first time since April.
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The Deputy received a very detailed briefing, including from the HSE. The Deputy's demeanour at the briefing was much different than it is publicly. She is overstating the negativity around the testing, in my view. We want to ramp up and increase testing but it has been ramped up very significantly. More than 1 million tests have been carried out since the start of the pandemic.
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We introduced serial testing programmes for the nursing homes, which has been very effective.
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Will the Deputy not acknowledge that it has been effective? The nursing homes have been serial tested twice and we will do so again. Serial testing at the meat plants had to be rescheduled but it has commenced. The same applies in respect of direct provision. I agree there is huge pressure on the community side.
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The Government is only recruiting now.
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Last week, testing was at 15,000 per day. We will continue to increase testing and to recruit additional people. I have no difficulty with facilitating another briefing with the HSE or the CMO in relation to this plan and so on.
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Will the Taoiseach publish the advice?