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Dáil
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Bloody Sunday and constituency issues

Summary

Mary Lou McDonald raised the decision not to prosecute former soldiers over Bloody Sunday, and the Taoiseach expressed sympathy for the families and anger at the outcome. Further questions followed on mortgage payment breaks, Covid contacts for teachers and SNAs, Debenhams workers, the demolition of the O'Rahilly house, student restrictions, and the dismissal of Spike Island workers, with the Taoiseach giving brief responses or assurances where possible.

This morning, the North's public prosecution service announced that 15 former British soldiers will not be prosecuted in connection with the murder of 13 civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday in 1972. I pay tribute to the Bloody Sunday families for their strength, stamina and determination. This is another very disappointing day in their campaign for truth and justice. I share that disappointment given the well-documented actions of the British army on that day. The former British Prime Minister, David Cameron, said that what happened was "unjustified and unjustifiable". Despite this, the families have been denied justice for nearly half a century.

As the Taoiseach will know, the British Government continues to block the establishment of the legacy mechanisms to which it signed up and which were agreed under the Stormont House Agreement. Will the Irish Government continue to support the Bloody Sunday families in their campaign to uncover the truth of what happened that day? Will the Taoiseach speak, as a matter of urgency, to the British Prime Minister to ensure that provisions made under the Stormont House Agreement are implemented?

Comment on this

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The decision of the Public Prosecution Service for Northern Ireland to uphold the decision not to prosecute 15 former British soldiers in connection with the Bloody Sunday killings will come as a deep disappointment to, and will be met with anger by, the families of all of those killed by the parachute regiment in Derry in 1972. Today's developments will bring back feelings of pain, loss and frustration for many. I was the Minister for Foreign Affairs when the then Prime Minister, David Cameron, made his apology, which I felt at the time was very heartfelt. I believe he got it right with regard to the manner, nature and candour of that apology.

The families have been tireless in pursuing this issue and in seeking truth and justice. They will examine this decision very closely. I understand they and their legal representatives are considering whether there are grounds for challenging this decision in the UK High Court. They should be given space for such consideration.

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Yesterday the Tánaiste, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform met with representatives of the banks. As we all know, the outcome was that payment breaks will no longer be offered to borrowers who are in trouble due to Covid. Statistics issued by the Central Bank show that more than 56,000 family homes were in mortgage arrears at the end of June. There is a code of conduct for mortgage arrears in place to protect borrowers but, as the Taoiseach will know, it is very much weighted in favour of the banks.

I am asking the Taoiseach in light of these statistics and the depth of concern that many in this House have for those borrowers who have been on to us. Will the Taoiseach bring forward some form of amendment to strengthen the code and rebalance it so that borrowers are not at the whim of the banks to the degree that they are under the code at the moment?

Comment on this

As I said earlier, the European Banking Authority, which is the European-wide regulatory authority, has essentially made the six-month timeframe in terms of payments being deferred. The position is that the Government met the banks yesterday and more tailor-made responses to individuals from here on is the more appropriate response. It is not a cliff edge although as and from the end of this month no new people may apply for the waiver or deferment of payments. It has been invaluable to many people with mortgages and personal loans as well as many small and medium-sized enterprises as well. The majority were able to exit after a period and return to normal repayment although others have been unable. It is incumbent on the banks to behave properly and sensibly to such customers. The Government will monitor that in the coming period.

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Yesterday, Dr. Ronan Glynn sent out an excellent graphic and talked about how we should all reduce our contacts. He outlined how one case of the virus could lead to 56 cases. It was an excellent graphic and it was incredibly appropriate. I want the Taoiseach to speak to those who cannot reduce their networks. In particular, I am speaking of schoolteachers, special needs assistants and people who are in contact with numbers of people daily. They cannot reduce their networks. What is the message for them? In our school community at the moment there is anxiety around the number of contacts. They seem to be getting left behind. What is the Taoiseach's message to teachers and SNAs who are expressing a genuine sense of frustration, fear and anxiety about feeling unsafe in their workplace at the minute?

Comment on this

First, I thank the teachers and SNAs throughout the country for their commitment and for making it possible for schools at primary and post-primary level to reopen. It has been the number one objective of our society collectively that our children would be back in a learning environment, because their life chances and development depend on it. That said, in terms of the primary school system, mass testing to date and testing where it has occurred indicate transmission from children to other children is low. The figure was as low as 0.5%, but I can be checked on that. That was the latest in HSE data. The acting Chief Medical Officer drew some reassurances from that aspect of it.

The schools and the Department are in constant contact in respect of public health advice. This morning, further substantial funding was made available to the Department of Education and Skills to enable the school transport system to fulfil the latest National Public Health Emergency Team advice in respect of school buses at 50%. We are constantly working on making it safer and providing the resources to enable us to do that. The schools put in significant measures as well and that is important to note too.

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Yesterday, the Déise five occupied the Debenhams store in Waterford city in protest at the refusal of KPMG to talk. These workers want real talks unhindered by the introduction of non-union scab labour into the stores or the intervention of gardaí against peaceful protests, which we have seen now in no fewer than three stores during the past five days. The programme for Government raises the possibility of improving workers' rights in liquidation situations, a tacit admission that workers' rights may not currently be what they should be here. Given all this, is the Taoiseach prepared now clearly, strongly and unequivocally to call for the withdrawal of non-union scab labour from these stores, to call for a stop to the involvement of the gardaí in this peaceful industrial dispute and, last but not least, to call on KPMG to end its refusal to talk and to call for real talks to begin aimed at formulating a meaningful proposal for the workers with a view to ending this dispute?

Comment on this

There should be proper and meaningful dialogue between all involved in this particular dispute. There are legal frameworks governing this. There is no point in pretending there are not, because there are. I have spoken to some workers and, as I have said, I am not going to pretend that things can be done that cannot be done.

I believe the law needs to be reviewed and changed especially in respect of honouring collective agreements or at least giving collective agreements the same level of parity as other creditors in terms of a liquidation. That should happen. Moreover, within the context of this specific dispute, meaningful efforts should be made so that, in addition to the statutory redundancy the Government is giving, workers could get more payments in addition to what they would be getting from a statutory perspective.

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The O'Rahilly was the only leader from the 1916 battle to die in battle. His home in Herbert Park, Dublin was the location of much planning and development during that revolutionary period. Indeed, the Asgard gunrunning was organised there, as were many of the events of the 1916 Rising. Cumann na mBan was founded there.

Today, the building lies in rubble in a shocking act of cultural vandalism. Today at 6.30 a.m., against the motion passed by Dublin City Council with regard to listing the building, the developer demolished it. This mirrors the experience with Moore Street, which lay for decades in dereliction.

Every Minister in the Government owes his or her office to the bravery and sacrifice of the men and women of 1916. Why was there not one Minister to stand up for that building before it was demolished?

Comment on this

Iconic and historic locations such as this should be preserved or should be, at a minimum, incorporated into any new development. As Deputy Tóibín is aware, in terms of Moore Street there have been exhaustive discussions involving Deputies and Senators from both Houses. This has resulted in conclusions that could enable the dereliction to end and the locations to be preserved historically in an appropriate way. They allow for development to occur as well. It took a long time in terms of Moore Street. Something similar should have happened here, in my view. I do not believe buildings of this historic value should be demolished in such a manner.

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There is a sense of outrage today about the young people in Galway last night and in the Taoiseach's city of Cork. I do not agree with it. I believe mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí. We should be praising our young. They were all allowed to go back to college last week. They paid their fees, including accommodation fees. Then, the Government announced on Friday evening that these people would have to stay at home for two weeks. The people are utterly confused and so are the young people. They do not buy in to the Taoiseach or believe he is serious about this.

As I said before, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health have spectacularly dropped the ball on the messaging. There are mixed messages. Every parent was allowed to pay the money last Friday, register and pay the fees. Then, the colleges told the students that evening after the close of business that they could not attend and would have to participate online. Why would they not go? They need some fun in their lives too. We should stop knocking them. What about "golfgate"? It has gone off the agenda completely. If we keep demonising young people like this, then we will suffer for it. We should praise them and give them a chance to live as well.

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Deputy Collins, I will call you as the last group leader before going to the Taoiseach.

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In Cobh on Friday, three workers, including two full-time seasonal workers and a part-time worker, received notice of dismissal even though their contracts had them working until 29 November. It was no coincidence that these workers have been campaigning for toilet and hand-washing facilities at the Spike Island Tours kiosk. One had to get the union in to represent them to get toilet and hand-washing facilities. When they went looking to discuss it, the board of Spike Island Development Company told them their personal issues were getting in the way of business. This has to be dealt with. These are State companies. They have unfairly dismissed workers at least one month before their contracts were up. There should be an intervention on behalf of the State to get these workers reinstated.

Comment on this

Aontaím leis an Teachta. Mar a deir an seanfhocal, mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí, agus níl aon amhras faoi sin. Ar an taobh eile den scéal caithfimid a bheith macánta chomh maith agus níl aon leithscéal maidir leis na sluaite a bhí bailithe i lár chathair na Gaillimhe aréir.

I agree. Nobody is knocking or criticising young people but, irrespective of age, people should not congregate in large numbers on streets in the middle of Covid-19. Let us call a spade a spade; we cannot do it. Whether people are adults or whatever age they are, we cannot congregate in large numbers. The numbers might be in Galway because of college but they do not have to be students only. There could be others who are not students who are congregating. Congregation is problematic for the spread of the disease and the virus. We need to be unequivocal about that. Even though colleges are returning, in many cases the numbers of students coming back are much lower than normal. When I was in touch with one university, for example, it had already, prior to any decisions last Friday, ordained that classes would be 80% online and 20% on campus.

On Deputy Collins's question, I do not have the details of the specifics but, again, there should be no issue with proper toilet facilities for workers. That should be a bottom line.

Comment on this

We are in the middle of a pandemic and now they are being dismissed by a State company.

Comment on this

They should not be dismissed by the company and I will pursue it.

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That concludes Questions on Promised Legislation. Eight Deputies were not reached today.

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