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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Covid strategy and vaccination rollout

Summary

Deputy Murphy says the new Covid plan lacks direction, confidence and effective reduction measures, and she questions testing, tracing and the Garda role in enforcement. Minister Ryan replies that he has regular updates, the plan has been repeatedly adjusted to changing vaccine supply, and a more detailed roadmap will be set out now that supply is becoming clearer.

The new plan to deal with Covid was announced on Tuesday and we face a minimum of another six weeks in lockdown. The expectation was that by the end of February we would be down to between 200 and 400 cases per day but it is much higher. The strategy announced for reducing the numbers appears to lack a strategy and relies instead on people doing more of the same. People are losing hope. They are dejected and increasingly feel the Government is not in control, that there is a half-hearted approach, a pat on the head and to keep to the level 5 strategy. It is not convincing people. People are openly saying this is the worst Government we have ever had at a time when we need a Government to pull together. We can see, for example, that there is a spike in the case numbers among 18 to 24 year-olds. Is there even a public information campaign planned? We can see there are still problems in the meat plants. What is happening? What is the Government doing to address that as part of a strategy around workplaces?

We were recently told by the Taoiseach that there was going to be a scaled-up track and trace system that would look back 14 days. When the system nearly collapsed last October the Tánaiste told us that a track and trace system only works when the numbers are low enough. The Government must tell us what case numbers we need to get to in order to have a track and trace system that is effective and looks back 14 days. Poor communication is not just about mixed messages, contradictions and a whole lot of things like that - it is also about what we are not being told.

We need to see an actual roll-out plan for the vaccine as well. I know it depends on supply, but surely there is an indicative plan, a wall planner, showing on a weekly and monthly basis who gets the vaccine and when. Surely there is a personnel plan showing how many people we need and what locations they are needed in. Is the Minister satisfied and has he seen that plan himself? After the track and trace system last year, I want to see the plan. I want to see it so I can believe it. I am sure the public want to do the same.

On what happened over Christmas with the UK variant, it was here before it was identified. The levels of the virus in the UK, particularly in England, were huge before the variant was identified. There is now a variant in California which is rapidly spreading. People are not convinced by the half-hearted quarantine system that is being introduced as an emergency measure at a snail's pace.

Will the Minister tell me what numbers would be needed to have an effective track and trace system in place? Is there a comprehensive indicative plan? Has the Minister seen it? Will the Government publish it?

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

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What strategies are the Government taking to drive down infection levels in the cohort I mentioned?

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

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Finally, is the Minister honestly telling us that the AGSI is telling porky pies?

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

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Is the Minister is honestly telling us that that rank, that organisation-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

We are over time, Deputy. I call on the Minister to respond.

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I did not comment directly in response to that. I think An Garda Síochána did and I will let it speak on Garda operational matters.

The Deputy made various points about testing and tracing. We get pretty much weekly updates from the special Cabinet subcommittee on Covid. On Monday this week we met with the deputy CMO, Dr. Ronan Glynn, Mr. Paul Reid, Professor Brian MacCraith and various other officials who set out what is the latest situation. I am relating what I hear at those meetings. The Deputy was absolutely right, as was the Tánaiste, about how when cases go above a certain level it becomes very hard to do the contact tracing in an effective way. It becomes so widespread they cannot drill down to check back on every single thing and follow through. We are now back to numbers where that is possible. As I understand it there are 900 people working flat out - they are flat out, they are probably worked to the bone and it has been tougher for them than for anyone over the last year. People in the health system in general have been working flat out. The tracing teams are very good at it and are following every case.

I heard on Monday that there is a significant percentage of cases, up to about a quarter, where they are finding it difficult to trace what exactly the contact is. This is not because of any flaw in their system but there is still reasonably widespread community transmission. It seems the characteristics of the new variant are such that it is very easily transmitted in a way that is not easy to do tracing. I understand a close contact is someone a person has been in close conversation with for 15 minutes or in a room with for two hours. There seems to be some incidence of transmission with the new variant where somebody outside that close contact still transmits it and that makes it difficult for the tracers to pursue it. However, there is no shortage of resources or effort in the contact tracing system we have. At that Monday meeting there was real concern about whether there was a plateauing of the numbers. We should never take just one or two day's numbers. We must look at the five-day average and the 14-day average. Thankfully, in the last two to three days, we have seen the positivity rate come down before 5% for the first time, to 4.6% and then 4.32% yesterday. If we can keep that down then we will have further capability to focus really tightly on where the UK variant which is dominant here is.

On the roll-out plan for the vaccine, I want to stand up for our public service and our health service in particular as they have been thrown three incredible challenges in recent weeks. The volume of vaccines we have available to us is obviously set by an EU system. The first significant challenge our health system had to address was because the system was under such stress and risk, we switched the whole vaccination programme to put front-line health workers first. That was an appropriate decision.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Minister.

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Second, there was the recommendation that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines be used on older people. The third challenge was because of the AstraZenenca numbers dropping below-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Minister.

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In each instance, they have been incredibly flexible. They will set out a roadmap.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

We are way over time. I thank the Minister.

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The Minister is telling the House about what "they" are doing. Has he seen an actual roll-out plan? Has he seen a wall planner detailing, week by week, the various cohorts that will be vaccinated? I understand that any plan has to be indicative and I understand about the supply-side issue. Has the Minister seen the work planner in respect of the recruitment and locations that will be a counter-balance when we get decent supplies in? Has he seen any of that? Has the Government actually seen that or is it just taking on faith what it was told? We were told last year that we had a track and trace system but that system nearly collapsed in October. I want to know whether there is an actual plan that has been worked through in a detailed format and whether the Government has seen it. Can the Minister tell us whether that is the case?

On the issue of the track and trace system, I heard a Government Deputy speaking on Second Stage of the Health (Amendment) Bill 2021 this morning bemoaning the fact that there was only a 24-hour look-back. The Minister is telling us that it is possible to do a two-week look-back but a Government backbencher stated that there is only a 24-hour look-back.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

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Is there a 14-day look-back? Will the Minister give us the numbers that need to deliver an effective-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, please. Thank you. I ask Deputies to co-operate in terms of the time.

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We have seen all that sort of detail. What I was setting out is that I have seen how the plans had to change. It all had to be radically changed on several occasions. I believe and it is expected that exactly what the roadmap is will be set out in more detail. I think it will be possible to do that now because, for the first time, there is some sort of clarity around the international supply of the vaccine. That was not certain until now. Last week, we saw the AstraZeneca numbers change radically. The entire plan had to change again as a result. I believe there is increasing certainty around the issue for the coming weeks and, in that light, I think it will be possible for us to make public all the detailed plans that are there. The entire system is working on that and there is no shortage of resources or any other capability. I believe that plan can and will be shared, with the proviso that it may change. It may change for the better if some of the other vaccines, such as the Johnson & Johnson or Janssen vaccine or the CureVac vaccine, come into play. If that is the case, we will have to continue to change in order to advance and do things more quickly. That is what we are focused on.

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