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Dáil
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Order of Business

Summary

The chair outlines Order of Business rules. Deputies then raise the housing shared-equity scheme, CETA, forestry licences, long Covid, and the Taoiseach replies on business arrangements, including agreement on today's business.

I remind Members the House has agreed that, for the duration of the Covid-19 emergency, the rapporteur's report will not be read out but will be taken as read. It has also been agreed by the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform that a single question shall be put on the business arrangements for the week. Where a member of a party or a group appears in order to object to the Order of Business, no further contribution may be made by any member of that party or group, any objection shall not exceed one minute, the Government shall make a single response to any objections, and that response from the Government shall not exceed three minutes. Therefore, the question is: are the proposed arrangements for this week's business agreed to?

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They are not agreed. In June the Minister with responsibility for housing advised me in a reply to a question in the Dáil that the proposed shared equity scheme had been approved and passed by the Central Bank. We now have confirmation that this is not the case. In fact, we know the Central Bank and the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, have both criticised that scheme indicating it would potentially push up house prices.

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What does that have to do with the Order of Business?

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I want the Minister with responsibility for housing to come into the House to make a statement and answer questions on why he misled this Dáil. He told the Dáil unequivocally and clearly that the Central Bank had approved and passed the shared equity scheme when no such formal approval had been given. The statement he issued on this today does not clarify his statements in the Dáil and why he told the Dáil that. I ask that he comes into the Dáil to answer questions on why he incorrectly misinformed the Dáil and said the scheme was approved by the Central Bank when it had not been.

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It is good to be back. The big dark cave up on the Liffey kind of suited the Government. There are fewer places to hide in here.

No. 16 on the Order Paper is the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA. It gives power to corporations to sue governments for progressive policies. CETA must not go to a vote in this House without a proper prior debate on the floor of the House. Has the Ceann Comhairle sought assurance from the Government that there will be no attempt to slip this issue in during the business this week?

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On the point Deputy Cian O'Callaghan raised, it is important the Minister with responsibility for housing comes before this House. It is important we get to the bottom of why the Minister has misled the House about a flawed scheme, about which the senior civil servant in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform said it was being lobbied by developers because it would line their pockets and push up house prices. My colleague, Deputy Ó Broin, has clarified with the Central Bank that what the Minister put on the record of the Dáil was not true and that the Central Bank has not approved this scheme. The Minister not only misled the Dáil but also the people by appearing on "Prime Time" and reiterating that falsehood. With respect to the Government the Taoiseach leads, it is crucial he has the Ministers accountable to the House and that they are able to explain to this House and the public why this Minister continues to peddle this lie about a deeply false scheme that was lobbied for by developers and that will push up house prices.

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I am objecting also. I want the Taoiseach to arrange for a debate on felling licences for forestry. We are talking about building houses. Merchants cannot get a stick of timber. The price of timber has increased by more than 100% and it is just not working. We need legislation that will empower people to cut their forests in the same way as you harvest any crop. When you set a crop of wheat, you are entitled to harvest it. It must be the same for forestry even though it involves a 30-year timespan. This nonsense of a licence is a joke. We are being held up with objections. We must change the legislation; otherwise we will never get a house built.

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We need to bring the Minister for Health before the House as a matter of urgency to find out why the HSE has been so slow to recognise long Covid as a condition. It is estimated that there is somewhere around 35,000 people affected by long Covid, but during the past 18 months patients have found it next nigh to impossible to get doctors to believe them, even though this condition has been recognised by the World Health Organization.

The economic cost alone is in excess of €50 million and continues to grow yet our health service is not even counting the numbers. The physicians of patients with post-viral chronic syndromes most commonly refer them to the mental health services, suggesting that it is all in their minds. This is not good enough. This issue needs to be addressed immediately.

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I will just say to Deputy Doherty that it is completely out of order to accuse any Member of the House or a Minister of misleading the House or the public in circumstances other than by way of a substantive motion. I ask him to temper his remarks on that matter.

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It is just a statement of fact. It is not-----

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We are not here to adjudicate-----

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May I raise a point of order?

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Yes.

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I hope I will be corrected if I am wrong but it is my understanding that the word "lie" was used by Deputy Doherty. In the time I have been in this House, every time a Member has used the word "lie" he or she has been asked to withdraw it.

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It is not in order to use such terminology. It would also be preferable not to accuse people of misleading the House, other than by way of substantive motion. Would Deputy Doherty care to withdraw the accusation of lying?

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I have no problem withdrawing the accusation of lying but the substance of the matter is that the Minister did mislead the House. I stand over that. The serious question is whether the Taoiseach is again going to turn a blind eye just as he has with everything else. Is he actually going to lead in government? This cannot go on.

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I will first make a point regarding the Order of Business. The Government wants to co-operate and engage with the House. I am very interested in seeing a balance that involves getting laws passed in the House rather than Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday being simply about general debates, general statements and Ministers coming before the House to discuss this, that and the other. We have Oireachtas committees. The Minister for Health has no problem coming before anybody to discuss long Covid. Our Order of Business session has not started yet. The Business Committee is meant to order the House and decide what is discussed on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday but we now see a new parliamentary ruse every week. Members say that they do not want the Order of Business, which they have just agreed a short while ago at the Business Committee, to proceed because they want X, Y and X to happen. If X, Y and X are to happen, we will have no time to do anything. Then there will be the genuine issue of rushing legislation at the end of the year. I worry about the balance of time between dealing with legislation and taking legitimate questions to ensure accountability. Do not get me wrong but our timeline is an issue. That is a general point.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan raised a point. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has been very accountable to the House in respect of all issues pertaining to housing and legislation. Deputy Doherty said the affordability Act was a flawed measure. It is interesting that he did not oppose it. The Opposition party did not oppose the Affordable Housing Act 2021, which included the shared equity scheme. It huffed and puffed but did not oppose it. That is a fact. My point is that it was well debated in the House. I will talk to the Minister. If the Deputy wants the Minister to come before the House, I will talk to him about that-----

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He misled the House.

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-----but the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has never had an issue coming before the House-----

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Is this guy joking? Is the Taoiseach joking?

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-----and engaging in debate-----

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Has the Central Bank approved it?

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-----on a range of issues so that people can air their disagreement and so on. Deputy Barry raised the issue of the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA. He said that we must not allow it to be slipped in. CETA has been on the agenda for years. There is no danger of it being slipped through. It has been before an Oireachtas committee for the last year. When we were in opposition, we had a Private Members' debate on CETA. It has been in practical de facto operation for three or four years. It will not be slipped through. I have no issue with a debate on CETA if it is requested. That can again be organised through the Business Committee.

As I have said to Deputy Naughten, there is no issue with discussing long Covid. I am sure the Minister will address the issue either before an Oireachtas committee or when taking questions here in the House. There is no issue with that. We take the matter very seriously by the way. I do not believe it is in anybody's head. It is a very serious issue that will be with us for some time to come.

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Deputy Barry asked me about CETA. All I can say is that I have full confidence in his group's representative on the Business Committee, even if he does not. I am sure nothing will be slipped through.

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Can I get clarification on whether the Business Committee can now meet to arrange for the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, to come before the House? It is a very serious issue, as it always has been, for a Minister to mislead the House. He has also misled the public in repeating the accusation on "Prime Time".

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If Sinn Féin's very capable members on the Business Committee want to bring up that at the next meeting of the committee, it will get full and adequate consideration.

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As we are dealing with the Order of Business for this week, I ask, given the comments of the Taoiseach, that the Minister make himself available and that it be arranged for tomorrow.

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What would the Deputy like to take off the agenda for tomorrow?

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I think we can sit a bit longer but that is up to the Ceann Comhairle and the other members of the Business Committee. A Minister has misled the House and the public after being corrected by Deputy Ó Broin and by a statement of the Central Bank. It needs to be dealt with in the House.

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I will undertake to consult the Business Committee after this session.

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We might have other issues then.

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You might, but I will undertake to consult the Business Committee. After all of that, are the proposals for today's business agreed? Agreed. I will call Deputies on the Order of Business, with one minute for a question and one minute for an answer.

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