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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Ministerial record on Central Bank

Summary

Deputy Murphy challenged conflicting ministerial statements about the Central Bank and asked the Tánaiste to confirm the record would be corrected. The Tánaiste said the Minister had already written to the Ceann Comhairle to do so and broadened the discussion to home ownership.

The Minister, Deputy Coveney's, botched appointment of Katherine Zappone was a scandal for many reasons, one of which was his inconsistent and contradictory statements to the Oireachtas foreign affairs committee. This necessitated two visits to the committee by the Minister so that he could clarify and expand on remarks he had made. It seems that Ministers giving incorrect information to Oireachtas Members is a theme of this Government. On 24 June, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, clearly and unequivocally told my colleague, Deputy Cian O'Callaghan, on the record of this House: "[The shared equity scheme] has been passed by the Central Bank [and] has received approval...". The Minister repeated this claim earlier this month when he appeared on RTÉ's "Prime Time". No such approval of the shared equity scheme was given by the Central Bank. In fact, both the bank and the ESRI, as well as officials of the Departments of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and Finance, have been highly critical of it. They have all warned that the shared equity scheme will fuel house price inflation.

Yesterday, hundreds of people gathered outside this House to protest about the housing crisis. We will see more of that in the coming months. I went out to the protestors, as did my colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan, and it is very clear that they cannot take further house price increases. However, the Central Statistics Office, CSO, announced yesterday that house prices had increased by 8.6% in the year to July. Houses prices have doubled since 2013. The Tánaiste has been in government for all that time. The shared equity scheme was drafted by the construction industry and lobbied for by developers. They remain almost its only supporters. They support it because it will fuel further house price increases. It is in their interest. In the UK, a similar scheme resulted in house prices increasing and a boom in profits for large developers. There was no additional supply in the locations where it was needed. That was despite government spin in the UK.

As if that was not bad enough, we now have a Minister falsely claiming the scheme is supported by the regulator. Does the Tánaiste think it is acceptable for the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to come into this House and make false claims about the Central Bank's approval of a Government scheme? Does he agree that we should be able to trust information that is given by Ministers to this House? We hope lessons have been learned from the Zappone debacle. Will the Tánaiste call on the Minister to come in and make a full statement, and correct the record as a matter or urgency?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. My understanding is that the Minister has already clarified his position and his remarks in regard to this issue. I am sure he will be in the Chamber in the near future. If not today, I am sure he will be in the Chamber next week for some reason or another. All of us from time to time say things that are inaccurate or incorrect, including the Deputy. There is not a single Member in this House who has not said something in an interview, at a meeting or in an email that turned out to be incorrect. All of us make mistakes in that regard. We do so in good faith and when it is pointed out to us that we said something that was wrong, we try to correct it as soon as possible. We need to be appreciative of, and understand, that. I do not think there is a single person in this House who has never had to clarify a remark or correct the record in regard to something they said in an interview, in the Chamber, at a committee meeting or, perhaps, at a meeting in his or her constituency.

I have not been briefed on this particular matter in the past couple of weeks but my understanding is that when it comes to the affordable housing scheme, there are two shared equity schemes - one local authority-led and one that will be led by financial institutions. My understanding, and it could be incorrect - I will say that upfront - is that they do not require the approval of the Central Bank, but what may be required by the bank is approval for individual financial institutions to participate in one of those two schemes. I think that is the context in which the Minister made the remarks. There are two schemes, neither require Central Bank approval but, for one of the schemes, the individual financial institutions would require approval to take part. However, I may be incorrect in that regard.

When it comes to Government actions on housing, one has to see them in the round. Housing for All is a package and if just one aspect of it was picked, of course it would not work, but when all of them are put together, I believe it can work. We have a massive social housing programme, which involves building more social housing in Ireland at this time than ever in the history of the State. That is good for everyone. It is not just good for people who get taken off the housing list and get social housing; it frees up rental properties for other people, thereby helping to control rents, and can help to bring down the general cost of housing. We have a rent freeze in real terms, linking rents to inflation, which will be very helpful for people who are renting at the moment. We have the Land Development Agency, a Government developer, building housing. That is a massive intervention by the State in the housing market and housing system. We have infrastructure funds that will service land with roads and water, making it possible for it to be developed and thus help to control the cost of housing. We also have the Rebuilding Ireland home loan scheme, which is going to be expanded and will become a local authority home loan. Single people earning up to €65,000 will qualify for a fixed-term, 20- or 30-year mortgage at a low rate, enabling them to afford a mortgage they would not otherwise have been able to afford. When all those things together are taken together, along with the affordable housing scheme, there is a very good plan and the Government is determined to drive it forward over the next couple of years.

Comment on this

I want to clear something up with the Tánaiste. I accept that people come in and make mistakes. Nobody is infallible. However, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, came in yesterday and made a very brief comment to the House, with no reference to the statement he made about the Central Bank. It is essential that the record be corrected. This is not just some mistake. It was doubled down on by the Minister going on RTÉ's "Prime Time" and telling the country the Central Bank had approved the scheme. That is not the case. The record needs to be corrected and we need to be able to trust what we are told in this House.

Yes, we do have to look at a housing programme in the round. Indeed, the current housing programme that has been announced is reversing some of the measures that were taken by the previous Government. Some of the announced measures are going to be introduced into the future rather than now. Of course we need to build social housing.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.

Comment on this

Some of us have been saying that for years. We have to build it in the quantities that are required.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

The Tánaiste to reply.

Comment on this

Does the Tánaiste believe the Minister should come in and correct the record in regard to the Central Bank?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I am informed that the Minister has written to the Ceann Comhairle to correct the record. I am confident he will do whatever is necessary in that regard.

What this is fundamentally about, and I think we will all agree on this, is helping people to buy their own home. I believe in home ownership and this Government believes in home ownership. Ireland is still a country where 65% to 70% of people own their own home. That is not the reality, however, for lots of people, particularly younger people and even those who are not that young. The question is what can we do. We have a lot of people who are paying €1,500 or €2,000 a month in rent, which are very high rents, and just about managing to do so, yet they cannot get a mortgage for a lower monthly figure than that. We need to help them in two ways. One way we are going to help them is with the local authority home loan, where people get a long-term, fixed-rate and low-rate mortgage they cannot get from the banks, thus enabling them to get an adequate mortgage to buy houses that are available. We are also going to help them with the shared equity schemes. I know people will say this could have an inflationary effect on house prices but what is the alternative to that? It is to leave them renting, and that will have an inflationary effect on rents.

Comment on this