For months now, the Minister has been telling people to reduce their energy use. In fact, he previously told people to be clever with their energy use. He said that people should use their smarts to cut down on energy use and save money. People have been doing that. All over the country, people are desperately trying to dramatically reduce the energy they use. They are doing so because they can no longer afford to pay soaring bills. Increasingly, people to whom I speak are telling me they are afraid to turn on the gas or electric. They are afraid of the size of the bill they will receive and how high those bills will go through the winter.

People are being clever and conscientious but can the Minister explain how people can use their smarts to reduce the punitive standing charges that are now being imposed by energy companies? These standing charges bear no relation to the amount of energy a consumer uses. One could live in darkness for the next 12 months and it would make no difference to the charge one would pay. Those charges are rocketing. An article published in the Irish Independent this week outlined the extent of the increases in standing charges. Some suppliers are now charging up to €700 on gas and electricity combined. Customers with pre-pay meters, who are usually the most vulnerable, are paying up to €900 a year. That is gouging. There is no other word for it.

As the Minister is aware, the standing charge was introduced as a means of reflecting the fixed cost associated with providing households with gas and electricity. It has nothing to do with the unit cost of energy. There is no reason it should be increasing at a rate that is similar to the increase in energy costs. I heard the Minister speaking about this issue on the "News at One" radio programme earlier in the week. He blamed the war in Ukraine and he blamed Putin. All present know Russia is responsible for the global energy crisis but some companies are using it as a pretext to jack up their prices. Representatives of the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, appeared before the climate committee yesterday and stated they were powerless to impose limits on the level of standing charges. They said it was a matter for this House to legislate. The Consumer Association of Ireland has also called on the Government to act. It wants the Government to empower the regulator to have a role in setting equitable standing charges that actually reflect the fixed infrastructural cost they are supposed to reflect. If the Minister really wants to see people rewarded for cutting their energy use, will he do something about the exorbitant standing charges?

Time is up, Deputy.

I do not want to hear him devote his response to the geopolitical problem. What is the Government going to do and when it is going to do it?

The first message we have to give to people is that, yes, we have to be smart and clever, but we also have to stay warm and comfortable through the winter and protect everyone's health. No one should be getting any message that involves restricting that comfort and basic health. The CRU appeared before the Oireachtas committee yesterday to addressing questions in respect of this and other issues. It is important, however, to give confidence to people, particularly the most vulnerable, that they will not be left in a situation where they do not have those basic comforts. There will be a moratorium on disconnection for vulnerable customers. It has been extended from 1 October to 31 March.

That moratorium is for all domestic customers. It now extends to the end of February. There will be an extended debt repayment period. From 1 November, debt repayments plans will be extended to give households a minimum of 24 months to repay debt. There will be reduced debt burden pay-as-you-go top-ups. New measures mean that debt repayment levels will be reduced to 10% from 25% on pay-as-you-go customers' top-up payments. For example, on a €20 top-up, only €2 will go towards the debt repayment instead of €5.

I will make two final points. There will be better value for those on financial hardship meters. All customers with a financial hardship meter will be put on the cheapest tariff from their supplier from 1 December 2022. Electricity suppliers must actively promote the vulnerable customer register. I could go on. There are other measures. This month, we will deliver a scheme that we introduced and that is taking time to deliver. It means that for those at highest risk who may depend on medical equipment, we will take specific measures in the houses identified. All of that is an important signal to give to customers not to turn off the heat or lights. We will all manage carefully but we do not want to see anyone going cold, lonely or at a loss.

On standing charges, as the CRU stated yesterday, this is not an issue over which it has regulatory control. We have to do a review. Earlier in the debate, we heard about what is being done in the European Union. There is a wider approach where we are looking at the whole-market systems and regulatory system. That cannot be done quickly or easily. An entire energy market cannot be completely changed in a week or two.

It is in your hands.

It takes time to work out what is the best regulatory system. We can and will look at this issue in regard to what the regulatory and market structures are but first things first because we have to get through a tough winter. We have to stand up to Mr. Putin in doing that. The first and most important thing is to protect the most vulnerable. We have a reduced use campaign, social welfare payments, protections for businesses and credits for customers. That is the combination of measures we are going to apply. I believe the approach we are taking in that regard is the right one.

I deliberately focused on one issue the Minister could do something about now, namely, extending the powers of the Commission for Regulations of Utilities in regard to standing charges so that where gouging is happening, the CRU could set an upper threshold that reflects the actual cost of providing the infrastructure. It does not relate to the unit cost of energy. Why is it increasing to the extent that it is? Approximately 217,000 electricity customers are in arrears and some 700 were disconnected in the first six months of this year. There are 148,000 gas customers in arrears already. Some of the most exposed people, those using meters, have standing charges of up to €900. This is absolutely mad. It has nothing to do with the price of energy-----

And a war.

-----and how it has to be dealt with at European level. Please deal with this one issue. It would make an immediate difference and it could be done quickly.

Where there are excess profits, which is Deputy Murphy's concern, going to the energy industry-----

I spoke about standing charges.

The real concern among members of the public is that they should not pay too much. The best way of addressing that, be it in a fossil fuel company, from which we will seek a contribution to feed back to the Irish public, or on the----

When?

-----electricity side where we will do the same, is through the mechanisms I mentioned, specifically the effective windfall taxes we have within the European Union mechanism.

With regard to changing things, were it so easy that we could address and solve all of these problems with a flick of a switch or at a stroke of a pen whereby the regulator has a different position. I do not believe that would necessarily address the current problem or crisis. We are seeing a number of energy companies exiting rather than entering the market. This is so complex that, as I said in the Dáil debate last night, the view that we can completely reform and change a market such as this in an instant is not true.

I was shocked to hear the Minister proposing to ban gas and oil boilers by 2025. This is a huge mistake and I strongly urge the Government to review the facts and listen to the experts in this sector to solve the climate issue in the domestic heating sector. This is a knee-jerk reaction by the Minister that is damaging rural Ireland already. Firebird Heating Solutions, which is next door to me at home in Ballyvourney, Kingspan and Grant Engineering are members of OFTEC, the Oil Firing Technical Association. They are the experts and I ask the Minister to listen to them.

For 50 years, Ireland has been the envy of the world in the area of central heating. The industry employs tens of thousands of people throughout the country. This is something we should admire and be proud of. The Minister, with ill-informed decisions and ill-informed advisers, will replace Irish jobs and companies with non-Irish imports. This is a tragedy, especially when there is no need to do so. We all know the climate problem at hand. Currently, there are almost 700,000 liquid fuel boilers in operation in Ireland keeping homes and families warm in the winter. In general, these boilers are in rural homes which are generally poorly insulated. The home upgrade cost is large, even with the recently announced SEAI grants. In general, those living in these homes are the least well-off in our society and cannot afford the larger retrofit programme, even with the grants involved. The Government wants to retrofit 400,000 homes with heat pumps. This is not a valid option for the majority of the 700,000 homeowners who use liquid fuel. Ireland currently does not have the workforce to retrofit 400,000 homes. When did the Minister last look for a plumber to work in his house? He would have had a tough job to get plumbers to do 400,000 jobs for him.

This move to retrofit 400,000 homes is really a move to electricity. We are currently facing - if the Minister has not realised it - an electricity shortage this winter. Factories are planning production shutdowns due to electricity shortages. Older people are very nervous. How do we expect to fit on the electric grid 400,000 homes that are currently being run off-grid? Boilers run on 90 W motors for a short time during the day. Their use of electricity is minimal.

The Minister is also planning to put thousands of rural jobs in jeopardy again. The Government needs to look at all options. There is no silver bullet. Electricity is not the only show in town and I would like the Minister to realise that. For the past ten years, Firebird Heating Solutions, Kingspan, Grant Engineering and OFTEC have been doing engineering studies on the use of HVO, hydrotreated vegetable oil, in our boilers. They have successfully completed all trials and are ready to go. HVO is fossil fuel free. It delivers a 90% reduction in CO2 levels, potentially saving 32 million tonnes of CO2. Will the Minister wake up to issues such as this, if that is possible?

The example of what we did on central heating is a very good one. It is fascinating to look at the census from the early 1960s which shows that about half of Irish homes did not have running water or an inside toilet.

They do not have them now either.

By the mid or late 1980s, as Deputy Healy-Rae said, around 95% of houses had central heating. There was an incredible change over two and a half or three decades. We are going to have a similar change in the next two and a half or three decades. We have to do it. We know we have to switch from the use of fossil fuels to stop the planet from burning. Another advantage of this is that we will switch to our own natural resources and local fuel. We will still be using central heating systems. In many cases, we will still use the same radiators. It will depend on the particular house. However, the switch in this case will be to heat pumps because there is a huge efficiency gain. Underlying this change is that it makes energy sense through the gain it provides in consistent, controlled, high-quality, lower cost heating. This is where we are going because it makes economic sense, it makes for better, healthier and warmer homes and we will be using our own power supply rather than power imported from Russia, Qatar or anywhere else on distant shores.

I agree with Deputy Healy-Rae on the quality of Firebird Heating Solutions, Grant and Kingspan Engineering. We could add Munster Joinery, which is down the road from Ballyvourney, and Glen Dimplex.

Those first three companies also distribute, sell and make heat pumps. We can and will be good at this. We do not serve people by trying to stick with fossil fuels. The signal of this war is to switch away from fossil fuels and we can and will do that in a way that helps and protects our people.

HVO will have a critical role, as the Deputy said. It is low carbon and involves taking a waste product and turning it into something that can replace oil. The clear policy and approach set out is to use those HVO fuels in the transport system. It will take that sector longer and be more difficult for it because the haulage industry and power plant vehicles with which the Deputy will be familiar need oil. HVO is more expensive and where we do not have an easy electrical alternative, it makes more sense to use it in the transport solutions we need, but not in domestic heating where we have a better alternative.

That is what the Government policy sets out. The Climate Action Plan 2021 last autumn sets out how we do this, including through a phased step away from fossil fuel towards the electric alternative. That is the sensible plan which keeps money in Irish people’s pockets and creates better, warmer and healthier homes, and it is the one we will stick to.

I will tell the Minister the plan. There are four points. HVO is fossil fuel free heating because it is made from a waste. It should have a zero rate of carbon tax, zero duty and a VAT rate of 5% applied to it, if the Government is serious about climate issues in rural Ireland. It is not a fossil fuel, so why are we taxing it as such for heating? That is a good point. The Government should implement that. The Government can also show how serious it is about the climate issue by extending the biofuel obligations scheme to include HVO. That is sensible and it should do that. The Government should work with Irish companies such as Firebird Heating Solutions, Kingspan and Grant to agree a joint plan to make Ireland the world leader in this fossil fuel-free liquid heating and create even more jobs for rural communities. We are already leaders in liquid fuel central heating, as I outlined. Irish industry is ready, willing and able to deliver fossil-free heating to rural areas and has been for years. The Government has been very slow to show that it is willing to engage with it. I am not asking the Minister but pleading with him to listen to common sense for once in his life by listening to what I have just said. I ask him to implement this proposal. At least he would be showing he is awake and listening to somebody making a sensible point.

What I am listening to at the moment is the people in the industry who are investing at scale and at speed. The Whitegate oil refinery, which we have retained, is important at this difficult time and is a strategic holding and business that gives us access to fuel supplies.

The Government will not even talk to it.

Please allow the Minister to answer.

It has said that the approach and policy we are taking will involve using some of the waste products and it can invest and use them in the transport fuel supply chain. This is the most secure and best investment but not the only one. We are going to invest massively in hydrogen and in ammonia in Cork and Shannon because that is where the offshore renewable power will come ashore. At the industry conference held this morning, it was evident that this is where the money, investment and jobs are going. This is where people agree that it is the right climate energy plan. This approach is working. The investment is happening. Decisions are being taken on the back of the plan that will protect us from imported fossil fuels. We should not change course and take a different direction.