On Tuesday night, retained firefighters walked out of the Gallery in disgust at what the Minister had to say in our debate on the Private Members' motion. They have been engaging in industrial action now for quite a while as a result of the failure to address the core issue of pay attached to the service. This industrial action is now at crisis point. There is an all-out strike planned for Tuesday, which will result in the closure of all retained fire stations across the State. SIPTU this morning stated that there is likely to be mass resignation from the service as a result of this action. The Minister knows this will cause the collapse of the service. Today, firefighters have marched on Leinster House. They are outside and are very angry that the Government will not intervene. An intervention is required now. I ask the Minister to make an improved offer in relation to pay for retained firefighters. I also ask and challenge him to go outside after this business to meet the firefights because they are fed up to the hilt with what the Minister said. Some handed in their pagers to members of the Opposition. I challenge the Minister to wear a pager for the next number of weeks, put up with an €8,600 retainer and not go farther than 2.5 km from his community and see how he can stand over such pay and conditions.

Here is one of the pagers belonging to the firefighters for the Minister. They asked me to give it to him. There will be a lot more of them next week unless the Minister intervenes.

No. Deputy Brady is completely out of order. Do not carry out a charade in this House.

This is a life-and-death issue and that Minister is sitting there and ignoring the firefighters of this country.

This is a stunt.

It is a pure stunt.

Please. It is absolutely outrageous behaviour.

From the Minister.

It is outrageous and not to be encouraged.

To get back to the matter at hand, I know many of the men and women in the retained fire service across the country. I commissioned the independent review. I was not asked to do it; I commissioned it, published it and brought it to Cabinet twice. All 13 recommendations were accepted by the Government.

Much progress was made in this regard concerning rostering and minimum staffing levels at stations. There will be 12 staff per station. The Deputy is correct that the issue of pay remains. His assertion today, like that of his colleague Deputy Brady the other evening, was at variance with what his party leader was asking for earlier that day. She had asked for re-engagement at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. Deputy Doherty asked, and Deputy Brady, who has engaged in an act of theatre here today, which was obviously choreographed-----

Get away.

It was obviously choreographed.

Will the Minister go out and meet the protesters?

Deputies, please.

I know firefighters right across the country.

Has he met them?

There is a process and I am confident this issue can be resolved. I have immense regard for the men and women of the fire service.

I thank the Deputy.

Will he meet them outside?

Will the Minister meet them outside?

I thank the Minister. The time is up.

Gabh mo leithscéal.

Will the Minister meet them outside?

Wait now, please.

I will tell the Deputy what I will-----

Wait now. Please desist and respect the orders of the House. Please.

The question was asked.

The Deputy has no role in this, good, bad or indifferent.

I came in here-----

You have no role in this, good, bad or indifferent.

The firefighters asked us to bring these questions to the Minister.

I will suspend the House if this racket continues.

I am just asking for an answer.

I will suspend the House if this racket continues.

Right.

I ask the Minister to conclude because he is out of time.

I will conclude. I have been interrupted repeatedly. I want to state that I encourage contact with the unions. There is contact and I encourage the unions to re-engage with the State's process and industrial relations, IR, process.

I thank the Minister.

They are outside the gate.

If I can, I wish to reassure the House that I have given an absolute commitment that the public sector pay talks will begin in July-----

Oh, come on.

-----which is next month.

An all-out strike has been called for Tuesday.

It is too late.

What I will not do, though, is what the Deputy and his party are doing, which is trying to use this matter for their own political gain-----

Get out of here.

Go outside the gates and talk to the firefighters. There is an all-out strike on Tuesday.

We saw what happened here today. The Deputy is shameless and people see through it.

There is an all-out strike on Tuesday. These firefighters are handing in their pagers to the Minister and he will not even talk to them outside the gates.

I call Deputy Bacik.

They are outside the gates.

Go raibh maith agat.

I ask the Minister not to be pointing his fingers. He should go outside the gates and talk to the firefighters.

Ceann Comhairle-----

I ask Deputy Doherty to go outside the gates himself and let us get on with our business.

We did already.

I spoke to them already. Do not worry about it, a Cheann Comhairle.

Oh, I heard the Deputy. I call Deputy Bacik, please.

I have just been outside the gates with the retained firefighters. I ask the Minister what he proposes to do this week to stop what we are going to see happening next Tuesday. SIPTU has indicated that retained firefighters will begin to resign en masse next week if serious and meaningful engagement with the Government does not happen. Leaving theatrics aside, let us talk about the real experiences of retained firefighters. I refer to the abysmal pay and conditions they put up with when they are putting themselves on the line.

One firefighter spoke to me last week. When everybody else was out enjoying the sun, retained firefighters were sitting in fire stations, on duty and on-call, awaiting a call and keeping our communities across the country safe. They deserve our respect and better pay and conditions. On behalf of these firefighters, I ask the Minister what he proposes to do to engage meaningfully with them to stop what is being proposed will happen next week. Deputy Duncan Smith and Senator Mark Wall of the Labour Party have asked that there be an urgent debate in the Dáil on this issue, given the news that came just this morning of the escalation.

I thank the Deputy.

We need to see urgent action-----

Deputy, the time is up.

-----and meaningful engagement from the Government.

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter and for the manner in which she did so, because this is a serious issue. I reiterate that much progress has been made since January on many issues. This has been recognised by SIPTU. The report on the retained fire service received more than 1,000 submissions, many of them coming from firefighters. The main remaining issue is that of pay and the retained payment, which is too low. I have said this. It is certainly too low. I am committed to doing everything I can to ensure this payment is increased, and increased significantly. There is contact between my Department and union representatives. This is happening. I ask that we use the apparatuses available to the State to resolve disputes, such as the WRC, and, if required, the Labour Court. I say this because this situation is resolvable. Leaving everything else aside, fundamentally, this is about retaining the brave men and women who are in these posts now and attracting more people into the service.

I thank the Minister.

I commissioned that review. I started this process.

Okay. I thank the Minister. The time is up.

We are a way down the road and I believe we can get there.

Please, Minister, the time is up. I call Deputy Whitmore.

I, too, would like to raise the issue of the retained firefighters. I have also been out talking to them this morning. They are angry and frustrated. Most of all, they are heartbroken. They are heartbroken because they are so committed to their communities and they know the impact this strike will have on the very people they work with, live with and love. I also received an on-call pager. The fact that SIPTU is saying there will be mass resignations next week is something the Minister must listen to seriously. He must engage with the firefighters. I also ask that he go out and talk to them. We must have a commitment to engaging properly with them. He must listen to the stories and to what they have to say.

At this stage, the issue is pay. Fundamentally, however, unless the Minister gets the pay issue correct, then there will be no retention of firefighters. They are leaving the service-----

I thank the Deputy. The time is up.

-----and this will leave our communities vulnerable.

Deputy, please, the time is up. I call the Minister.

I regularly speak to firefighters. I know many of them, right across the country. I have visited many fire stations in many counties. There are two retained fire services in my area of Fingal, in Skerries and in Balbriggan. I know there is a way through this situation. We need it to de-escalate it. What I have said repeatedly is that there has been agreement concerning most of the work done through the retained fire services report. Pay remains the last issue. I cannot ignore the fact that there is a national pay agreement and a process in place in the context of Building Momentum. This process is there. Those talks start next month, in July, on an informal basis. I have committed to our fire service personnel that I will advocate on their behalf very strongly for significant increases in their pay and improvements in their conditions. We have agreed on many of these aspects. I fully understand the position they are in and the argument that they are making. I am committed to resolving this issue and to doing everything we can from a Government perspective to do so.

I thank the Minister. I call Deputy Paul Murphy.