It is time to scrap the television licence. The Government needs to face up to this reality. People's trust and support for RTÉ and the licence have crumbled. People see the fiasco of excess and waste at RTÉ and they feel taken for fools. They also see the lack of accountability and, frankly, they have had enough. This collapse in public confidence is not helped by the revelation that Toy Show The Musical, which lost €2.2 million of taxpayers' money, had not received formal approval of the RTÉ board. Today, we have key figures behind that debacle still dodging accountability to the Oireachtas media committee. Now, that is arrogance. It is no wonder hundreds of thousands of households have not paid the licence fee. People are voting with their feet.

Does the Taoiseach seriously propose to chase those hundreds of thousands of taxpayers through the courts, threatening them with a fine or even a custodial sentence, or will the Government act now? Surely we can all agree that the courts' time and resources are better spent on more serious matters. By the way, not one of the top brass at RTÉ has been held to account for wasting taxpayers' money. It is therefore unthinkable that thousands of ordinary people would face court while highly paid executives get away scot-free having wasted millions.

The collapse in public confidence presents a serious challenge in how we fund sustainable, vibrant and diverse public service media into the future, yet the Government is all over the place. Instead of being straight with people, we have had mixed messages and contradiction to beat the band. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, says one thing, the Minister, Deputy Paschal Donohoe another, and the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, yet another.

The Taoiseach has described the TV licence as outdated and belonging to a different time, and he is right. Abolish it, therefore, and get on with your job. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, talks about not rushing this decision, but she has had the Future of Media Commission report on her desk for two years, yet the Government plods along with a licence that is outdated and belonging to a different time. Not rushing is one thing; standing like a deer in the headlights is quite another.

We need a bit of common sense and cop-on here. The television licence should be scrapped and direct Exchequer investment put in place to fund public service media. That is what the Future of Media Commission found and that is what is contained in last night's Sinn Féin's motion. Tá tacaíocht an phobail don cheadúnas teilifíse tar éis titim as a chéile. Ba cheart deireadh a chur leis an gceadúnas teilifíse agus infheistíocht Státchiste a chur ina áit chun meáin seirbhíse poiblí a mhaoiniú go hinbhuanaithe. Our proposal to be voted on tonight represents the best approach to deliver a sustainable and successful future for public service media. It is also the fair approach for households and families. This is a positive way forward and certainly not something that should divide the Dáil. The Government must end the merry-go-round of dither, delay and contradiction. Now is the time for a decision. Will the Government scrap the TV licence and replace it with Exchequer funding to ensure a better future for public service media?

I thank the Deputy and wish her and everyone in the House a happy St. Valentine's Day.

It is very clear that we have significant problems in RTÉ. We see a culture of poor governance when decisions were not made or not made properly. We see a culture of arrogance from some of the senior people who were in charge of that organisation. We also see a wider culture of entitlement, a belief that the revenue from the licence fee should belong to RTÉ either entirely or for the greatest part. That sense of entitlement and thinking went back to the era when we had to fly Aer Lingus and had to get our electricity from the ESB. Things have moved on a lot since then. There is much more to public service broadcasting than RTÉ.

I do not agree that there has been no accountability. A number of people have resigned from their posts. People have been called in before the Oireachtas committee and have accounted for their actions. Those who have not yet done so should, in my view. I want to make that very clear. If any evidence of criminality or breaches of corporate law or company law are picked up in the audits, they will be referred to the Corporate Enforcement Authority. To date, that has not occurred but it may yet occur.

In the meantime, the Government will decide on a new means of funding public service broadcasting. That must be a method that is fair, one that says to people who use and benefit from public service broadcasting that they should bear some of the cost. That is only fair. It also needs to say very clearly that it is not all about RTÉ. It is also about other forms of public service broadcasting, including that provided by local radio and local media, which report on council meetings and court proceedings, and also more widely supporting bursaries for journalists and encouraging international correspondents, whom we do not have enough of when we look at our news in Ireland. All that is really important because if there is one thing I have seen change dramatically over the course of the past 15 or 20 years in politics, it is how people get their information and news. More so than ever, reliable sources of information are required because people simply cannot trust news and information stories they see online. Unfortunately, many people do and that is to the detriment of our democracy, not just here but also abroad.

The TV licence remains the law. The money does not all go to RTÉ; some of that goes to the public service broadcasting fund. It goes to Irish language programming, children's programming and news. Some of it helps to pay staff in RTÉ who have nothing to do with this at all and, I believe, must feel very demoralised at the moment because of all that is going on.

I believe people should obey the law and pay their taxes and charges. It would be an affront and an insult to the majority of decent law-abiding citizens who have paid their TV licence fee to grant an amnesty to those who did not. It would be profoundly unfair. If we granted an amnesty to those who did not pay, we would come under pressure to provide rebates for those who did. Has the Deputy considered that? Is that also her party's policy?

What is an insult and an affront to everyone is the Government's clear inability to take a decision. It has had a report for two years. That report made a clear-cut recommendation for the abolition of the television licence and its replacement by direct Exchequer funding. This has coincided with a collapse in public confidence in RTÉ and consequential non-payment of a TV licence the Taoiseach described as outdated and from another era. I agree with him on that. The question here is not about the necessity of quality public service media in RTÉ and beyond. We agree on that. The question is one of sustainable funding and the Government has to call it. Its members have dithered and delayed and contradicted one another. Worse than that, it seems it now proposes tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands, of people will be dragged through the courts for non-payment of a licence fee that is outdated and from another era. The answer to this is for the Taoiseach to do his job and make a decision. The only logical decision is the abolition of the licence and direct Exchequer funding. It is that clear-cut.

It is not. There are a number of options. One option is direct Exchequer funding but that funding might otherwise go to education, health or pensions, for example, and it would potentially give future governments undue influence over RTÉ if RTÉ was funded directly from the Exchequer. We know there is somebody in this House who might be head of the next Government and who is suing RTÉ at the moment. It would be a huge conflict of interest to have people who are suing RTÉ deciding how much money it gets paid. That is not the kind of democracy we want. It is the kind of thing we are starting to see happen in the United States and other places. I would not want that to be the case in our State. An alternative option is a household media charge collected by Revenue. That needs to be considered. Those options are under consideration by the Government and we will make a decision on that this year but it will require legislation-----

When? It is February. When will the Government make the decision?

-----and it will require a system to set it up. In the meantime, the TV licence remains the law. People should obey the law, pay charges they are liable to pay and pay their taxes. That is a very simple thing. I do not believe in tax amnesties and never did. I do not think the policy the Deputy is pursuing is the right one. It is a return to left populism and is a mistake.

The words "RTÉ" and "crisis" are now almost synonymous. Repeated scandals have hugely damaged public trust and confidence. Kevin Bakhurst and key members of the board are back in front of the Oireachtas committee today and there is a long way to go to rebuild trust in RTÉ. Senior management has an important role to play in this. We need a strong public service broadcaster that delivers important public service journalism in the public interest. To do this, we need a credible plan that addresses the enormous corporate governance failures identified. There must also be accountability for what has happened and full transparency going forward. However, the management team cannot do this alone. To proceed, it needs the Government to make a decision on reform of the TV licence. In its current form, it simply is not working and I think we all agree on that.

Sinn Féin has proposed scrapping it and replacing it entirely with Exchequer funding. I disagree with that position and do not think it has been thought through. Making RTÉ entirely reliant on State funding opens it up to risk of political influence. That flies in the face of the entire purpose of an independent public service broadcaster that plays a key role in holding the government of the day to account, not to mention that it would leave RTÉ's budget vulnerable to cuts during times of economic shock. It is not a tenable solution.

The Social Democrats have proposed a three-stranded funding model comprising some guaranteed multi-annual Exchequer funding, a public charge and a levy on social media companies. We need public service journalism now more than ever because of the misinformation and disinformation spreading like wildfire on social media. It is undoubtedly damaging our democracy. We believe social media companies should pay a levy to support public service journalism because trusted independent media is more important than it ever has been due to social media platforms' inability to self-moderate. A TV licence in an era where an increasing number of people stream content on their phones and tablets is completely outdated. It should be rebranded as a household public service journalism charge at a lower rate than the existing TV licence but collected in the same way. It is not appropriate for Revenue to be tasked with collecting something that is not a tax.

Incredibly, we are still waiting for the Government to outline what it intends to do. The Taoiseach says he has to wait for two more reviews before indicating what his plan is. That bears the hallmarks of delaying tactics. We know the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, favours Exchequer funding and the Tánaiste prefers the broadcasting charge collected by Revenue. What is the Taoiseach's position and when can we expect the Government to finally agree its proposal? The Taoiseach says it will be this year, but when this year?

I cannot give a date today but we should make a decision on this in the coming weeks, and certainly in the coming months. I agree that at a time when misinformation and disinformation are rife and are undermining democracy here and around the world, it is important to fund public service media and broadcasting. That cannot just be about RTÉ for reasons I think we will all agree on. The current model is to fund it through a mixture of the Exchequer and the TV licence. We will examine the options of a full Exchequer system or a system like the Deputy proposes, which is combined Exchequer funding and a household charge. We will weigh up the options and decide how it is done. There will always need to be an element of Exchequer funding. The current TV licence exempts people on very low incomes and older people. That would have to be the case for any household charge too.

The point the Deputy makes is very valid. Even if I may personally favour an Exchequer-funded model, which happens and works in some countries, I have a concern about such a model. It is that not this Government but perhaps a future government, led by the Deputy opposite, would have full control over the funding of RTÉ and public service broadcasting. There is a gross conflict of interest in somebody who is suing RTÉ deciding how much funding RTÉ would get. That would be a big problem for our democracy and we have to bear that in mind.

This has been discussed at length. In general, the public is sick of the same debates and conversations happening over and over and people are starting to tune out. That dampens the public appetite for a public service broadcaster and the value of all of that. A limited number of options are available and at some point the Government will have to pick some of them. The Taoiseach says he is in favour of some Exchequer funding; we agree with him and think there should be some guaranteed multi-annual Exchequer funding. Will the Taoiseach outline his position on a reformed licence fee that is not based on a TV, because we know that is dated? Will he outline his opinion on the potential for a charge for social media companies, which seem incapable of managing their platforms and the spread of misinformation?

It seems the Taoiseach is yet to come to a position on this so I ask him to consider the position of the Social Democrats, namely, some guaranteed multi-annual Exchequer funding, a TV licence fee reduced and rebranded as a public service journalism charge and not based on televisions, as well as a charge for social media companies.

The current position is the TV licence is the law. I encourage people to pay it, as I do and always have. It is not just about RTÉ; it is about Irish-language broadcasting, public service media, children's programming and the broadcasting fund, which supports many broadcasters and creators in the private sector who have their own small businesses. We need to bear that in mind when deciding whether to pay the TV licence fee.

It is linked to television at the moment but that is old-fashioned. I know there are people who have suggested it be linked to having any sort of device but I do not think that is any more practical, quite frankly. The possibility of applying it to households could make sense and that is the proposal the Social Democrats as a party are making, although I think we would still need to exempt pensioners and very low-income households because it would be very regressive otherwise and I think the Deputy is agreed on that too. As any change will require legislation and will requires a system to be set up, there will not be a new system this year and the licence fee will continue to apply at least for the entirety of this year. We have to consider all of those options.

In terms of a levy on social media companies, I am not sure that is a great idea. We already have a levy that is going to fund the media commission and that is due to be imposed on digital companies. We already have VAT on broadband, for example, and we have corporate profit taxes, which are being increased this year. There are already a number of taxes there and I am not sure it would be the right approach to add additional tax on top of that.