I am pleased to hear that the Taoiseach is willing to work with all of us because Natasha said to me that the experience of the courtroom was more traumatic for her than even the attack itself. I find that a shocking scenario for a young woman in any era but in a time of enlightenment when we all agree that we have an epidemic of violence against women and that we have to adopt a zero-tolerance approach, this is the lived experience of this woman. She said to me that the system, if I can paraphrase, is ass about face and that the concern for the victim simply is not there. There clearly is a problem within our system when this young woman is told to be grateful for the fact that there was a guilty plea. Really? Two to take her down, two to knock her out - concussed, broken nose, a potential brain bleed and the rug pulled from under her. There was the trauma of that - her friend watching on, others finding this to be a bit of craic, filming it and putting it on social media and this guy gets a suspended sentence. Really?

Thank you, Deputy.

This is so profound it requires immediate action by all of us. By the way, there are still nine counties with no domestic violence shelters. The Taoiseach knows this. Some progress has been made but let us not delude ourselves. We are not in a good place in this scenario. The question to the Taoiseach in respect of what he described in the Defence Forces - we know there is at least one other case where somebody got a slap on the wrist and got sent off on their way.

Thank you, Deputy. We are way over time now.

We know how profound these issues are. We need to see real leadership. We need to see collective leadership, but there is a particular onus on the Taoiseach as leader of the Government in that regard.

There absolutely is. It is one I take very seriously. It is a responsibility I do not shirk from at all. To touch on some of the issues the Deputy raised, in the case of an enlisted member of the Defence Forces, I am told that, following a conviction where imprisonment or a suspended sentence is awarded or an appeal has been heard or not submitted, the process for discharge commences upon receipt by military authorities of the certificate of conviction. What does that mean? We need to start speaking in plain English. If you have a criminal conviction, you have no right to be in our Defence Forces - plain and simple. We need to know how many people in the Defence Forces have criminal convictions and when they are leaving. That is not too much for me, as Head of Government, to ask, nor is too much for the Tánaiste, as Minister for Defence, to ask. I acknowledge the excellent work by the Tánaiste in actions to bring about a cultural change in the Defence Forces, including the establishment of the tribunal that the Deputy quite rightly referenced.

On the criminal justice aspect, section 2 of the Criminal Justice Act 1993 provides an important safeguard under which the DPP may appeal to the Court of Appeal to have a sentence reviewed if it appears the sentence imposed in a case is, in law, unduly lenient. Nobody should in any, way, shape or form suggest that Natasha should be grateful or have any sort of gratitude for coming forward and seeking justice. Absolutely not. A number of changes are under way in relation to judicial training, sentencing guidelines and preliminary trial hearings. The Deputy is right, however. Sometimes we think we have come very far as a country and then something like this pops up and we realise we have not come nearly as far as we think. We have a lot more work to do in this area, and our work continues.

I am going to break with tradition. Thank you for coming here today, Natasha, and giving us the opportunity to respond to the circumstances that you find yourself in. Can I ask everybody to stand and applaud Natasha?

We are on your side.

I also want to mark the death of a legend - Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh. His magical voice expertly evoked all the drama and passion of the GAA for decades. He devoted a lifetime to the promotion of the GAA and the Irish language. He did this in a manner that beguiled and transfixed a nation. He will be missed but forever remembered.

I will also take this opportunity to wish the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, and the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, the very best in their new positions.

I warmly welcome Natasha O'Brien to the Gallery. I am not alone in being in complete awe of your bravery and strength and in being extraordinarily grateful to you for your leadership.

Every time a woman is attacked we say "Never again". Every time a woman is brutally killed we say "Never again". Every time a woman is retraumatised by our legal system we say "Never again". Every time an abuser walks free from court with a slap on the wrist we say "Never again". However, it always happens again. Do those words mean anything to State institutions? The women of Ireland have been repeating them for decades. There is no end in sight. Right now, in tens of thousands of homes all over the country, women are being brutalised. Last week, Women's Aid revealed that it had received 40,000 reports of abuse in 2023. That is a 20% increase on 2022 and the highest number in the 50-year history of Women's Aid. Violence against women is an epidemic. It frequently happens in plain sight.

Natasha O'Brien was walking home with her friend. All she was doing was existing in a public space. Cathal Crotty decided to beat her to a pulp while his friends stood there and watched. As Natasha lay unconscious on the ground and Crotty walked away, he did not display any remorse. It was the opposite in fact. It seemed he felt proud. "Two to put her down. Two to put her out", he bragged on social media. We can imagine how he felt when he walked free from court last week. What did Natasha feel? She felt ignored, defeated and devastated because a man's career was deemed more important than women's safety.

How many more times will we say "Never again"? How many more women will have to be attacked? How many more protests will we have to attend? What will it take for women's safety to be prioritised? Natasha O'Brien's courage and eloquence has been inspiring, but why is it she has to fight so hard to try to get a crumb of justice? Why is it that women have to bare our souls? Why is it that we have to lead public protests before there is any action or before abusers face any consequences? I put it to the Taoiseach that Natasha and so many other women out there are fed up of hearing "Never again". They are fed up hearing platitudes from politicians and they are fed up hearing promises of reform. What they want are answers as to why the system keeps failing them and action to stop it from happening again.

I understand and respect the separation of powers, but there are questions here for the Judicial Council. The council was set up in 2019 and tasked with issuing sentencing guidelines. Five years later and we are still waiting for any guidelines to be issued. Has the Taoiseach received an explanation for this inordinate delay? With so many victims of crime feeling betrayed and failed by the justice system, will he consider establishing an ombudsman for victims of crime? In other words, a single statutory agency tasked with assisting victims of crime and advocating for them.

I thank Deputy Cairns for quite rightly raising this issue. I also thank her for her words in relation to the Minister, Deputy McGrath - who I join her in congratulating - and the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers.

I want the Deputy to know that we do not just say, "Never again". Never have I uttered those words. What we need to do is to adopt a zero-tolerance approach in Ireland when violence does occur. Violence and attacks and brutality will happen. How our systems respond, how they are victim-centred, how they do not let down the victim, how they should never retraumatise the victim and how they should deal with the perpetrators have to be our national obsession now. I share the Deputy's view. We should absolutely call this out for what it is: it is an epidemic. We live in a country where there is an epidemic. Even in this place, when you try to discuss and raise some of these issues, all sorts of labels get attached in relation to wokery and everything else. This is an extraordinarily serious epidemic. We should all call it out every time when we see misogyny existing, including in public policy debates that happen in this Chamber and the other Chamber, which, in my view, happens on an all too frequent basis.

I very much take the point about the Women's Aid report and the figures we discussed in this House last week. We should, are due and I hope we are going to have a debate, as I agreed to last week, in respect of that report. I would point out, though, that while the numbers are extraordinarily stark, part of it is that we are encouraging more people to come forward to speak up and speak out because we know we live in a society where for far too long things have remained behind closed doors. We need to have a situation where we are always trying to support people in coming forward and seeking help and access. However, the figures are an extraordinarily stark wake-up call for everybody in every part of Ireland.

I am not going to read out a long list of things to run down the clock, but I do believe that many actions have been taken that, genuinely, are positive steps forward. The fact that we now have a single statutory agency called Cuan with legal responsibility in this area for the first time in the history of our State and that we passed the relevant legislation through these Houses is not unimportant. The fact that we have seen more safe houses, in addition to the more traditional model of refuge beds, open across the country is not insignificant. The fact is that we have also introduced a number of pieces of legislation around stalking and non-fatal strangulation. We have reformed things in respect of the family courts and we have doubled the sentencing in relation to assault causing harm, which is the most frequent crime against someone experiencing domestic or gender-based violence.

We do have the Judicial Council, which is absolutely charged with producing sentencing guidelines and with facilitating judicial training. These are two issues that the Minister for Justice is extraordinarily eager to see progress being made on, as am I. My understanding is that the first set of sentencing guidelines is likely to be in the area of domestic violence. We will be seeking an update in terms of a timeline for these.

The phrase "zero tolerance" rings about equally as hollow as that of "Never again" in this scenario.

That is not fair.

Like many other people, I believe the DPP should review the leniency of this sentence because it was not a zero-tolerance one.

Fair point.

However, my fear is that in reviewing it, the DPP will discover that this sentence is not unusually lenient at all and that men routinely beat women to a pulp and walk free from court. Natasha is now known and admired across the country, but she never wanted to be in this position and she should not be. We are familiar with the names of other women too: Elaine O'Hara, Jennie Poole, Nadine Lott, Ashling Murphy, Bruna Fonseca, Anna Mooney and so many more. How many taoisigh have stood there before and spoken about zero tolerance and promised change? How many more women's names will we learn before any meaningful action is taken? How many more taoisigh will stand there?

Tackling gender-based violence is not easy, but an easy starting point should be victims feeling supported by the justice system. If the Taoiseach could respond to what I asked him in my opening contribution in his next reply, that would be really useful. He referred to the sentencing guidelines but said we have them. We do not have them. Can we find out what the delay is? Can we get clarity on the weight of victim impact statements in terms of sentencing, because it is difficult to see how this one was weighed in? We also need to know that perpetrators of abuse are not welcome in our Defence Forces. What is the Taoiseach going to do to ensure that these things happen?

I am absolutely furious about what has happened in this country - just to be very clear. There is nobody in this House more disgusted than anybody else.

Nobody. I am not just a Taoiseach. I am a father. I am a son. I am a husband. Everybody wants to live in a country with zero tolerance, and nobody suggests zero tolerance is some sort of slogan or platitude. Zero tolerance is the cultural change we need to bring about in this country. It requires every single person in this place, in the Judiciary, in the Defence Forces, in our public services, in our homes and in our schools to work to bring it about.

I am extremely proud of the work of the Minister for Justice, a Minister who has applied herself to this more than any Minister that has gone before her. I have watched as she has done that. She is not suggesting, I am not suggesting and nobody here is suggesting - Natasha is certainly not suggesting - that we are anywhere near where we need to be as a country. We are nowhere near it, but the work is under way. I will never, ever regret talking about zero tolerance, because it is only when politicians, including men, start demanding zero tolerance that we will bring about the change.

I have told Deputy Cairns very clearly that we are going to seek an update on the sentencing guidelines. It is urgent that we get them in place. I share that view, as does the Minister.

In relation to the Defence Forces, I have also very clearly said on the record of this House that it is utterly unacceptable that I have to stand here as Taoiseach of this country and I cannot answer the question of how many people with criminal convictions are in the Defence Forces today. That is not acceptable to me. It is not acceptable to the Government. It should not be acceptable to anyone in this House. The Chief of Staff will provide the Tánaiste with a report answering that question. If you are convicted of a criminal offence in the Defence Forces, you should get out of it.