We use Google Analytics to see which pages are read and how the site is used, so we know what to improve. This only runs if you accept. See our privacy notice for details.

Dáil
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Lowry group speaking rights

Summary

Opposition leaders and others strongly object to the Government’s proposal to allow the Lowry-linked group speaking rights and related changes to Question times, arguing it weakens opposition scrutiny and accountability. The Taoiseach defends freedom of association, says the Opposition is trying to impose a new order in the House, and the motion is eventually put to a vote and rejected.

The ultimate check and balance in the Oireachtas is, of course, that the Opposition holds the Government to account. Central to this are slots for Leaders Questions and Priority Questions that are the Opposition's opportunity to hold the Taoiseach and his Government to account, yet they persist in holding that logic on its head, the most basic premise upon which we carry out our democratic business. They gave us their word that the Government would withdraw its proposals to placate Deputy Michael Lowry and his colleagues as part of its grubby government deal.

They gave us their word and it seems they have gone back on it. They have come forward again with proposals that still seek to insist that Government Deputies would be in Opposition slots.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy. She has got her minute.

Comment on this

It is unacceptable. It will not fly. I am on my feet to make that clear to the Taoiseach.

Comment on this

On behalf of the Labour Party, I want to express our strong opposition to the Government's attempt to ram through this proposal to designate those who are clearly in government, who have supported the Government, as "Other Members". It is ridiculous to see the tortuous attempts the Government is making now to facilitate the Lowry lackeys by this attempt to shoehorn in-----

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Deputy should show respect.

Comment on this

Who do you think you are?

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Bacik must show respect for other Deputies.

Comment on this

Deputy Bacik should withdraw that comment. They got elected here the same as her.

Comment on this

I will withdraw that remark.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

That is enough. The remark has been withdrawn. Deputy Bacik can move on.

Comment on this

The proposal put forward by the Government to facilitate the group led by Deputy Michael Lowry does not even make grammatical sense, nor does it make legal sense. It would apply to members of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to designate a body of Members who are not in opposition in this way.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank Deputy Bacik and I call Deputy Cian O'Callaghan.

Comment on this

We are strongly opposed to it.

Comment on this

We have the same mandate as Deputy Bacik.

Comment on this

The Social Democrats are strongly opposed to the proposals the Government is bringing forward. It is very important that the Opposition can hold the Government to account. The Dáil is already one of the comparatively weaker parliaments in terms of its ability to hold the Government to account.

Comment on this

No, it is not.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputies should please not interrupt.

Comment on this

It absolutely is. We have one of the strongest executives. In other parliaments, the executives do not always get everything passed by virtue of the majority they have. We have one of the strongest Whip systems in western democracy, which makes it one of the strongest executives. We need to have more accountability, not less.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

Comment on this

We need more Government accountability rather than creating new slots where only Government TDs can ask questions of the Government.

Comment on this

The Government is trying to undermine democracy by insisting that the Lowry and Healy-Rae groups can be part of the Government and simultaneously be part of the Opposition-----

Comment on this

Get a majority and vote it down.

Comment on this

-----taking up its speaking time, committee places and resources. This is clearly an effort to minimise the ability of the Opposition to scrutinise the Government.

Another example of that is that this week for the third time, every single week, instead of two appearances by the Taoiseach at Taoiseach's Questions, he will appear only once this week. The fact that it is not a coincidence is confirmed by the Government's submission on Dáil reform where it is looking to reduce Taoiseach's Questions to one day a week.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

Comment on this

That would further reduce the Government's exposure to interrogation, not just by the Opposition but by its own backbenchers whom it claims to care so much about.

Comment on this

We need a proper debate in the Dáil this week about damage caused by flooding in Ireland, especially in the past week, particularly in County Cork. The community in Ballinascarthy was flooded once again for the second time in two months, as was Dunmanway and Halfway. The River Bride also flooded in Blackpool. The main cause of this flooding is the lack of rivers being cleaned. They are full of muck and silt. A national river cleaning programme must be put in place immediately to save people's property and maybe their lives. We cannot kick this can down the road. Will the Government allow a proper debate this week in the Dáil so that communities like Ballinascarthy can be-----

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank Deputy Collins.

Comment on this

-----confident that efforts are being made to make sure that something like this will not happen again?

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank Deputy Collins. I call on the Taoiseach to respond as quickly as he can.

Comment on this

I have listened to quite a lot. I have observed with some interest the growing alliance between the Labour Party and the Sinn Féin Party in this House.

Comment on this

There are four Opposition groups.

Comment on this

You still do not have enough for Government.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputies should please allow the Taoiseach to speak.

Comment on this

The Opposition keeps using the phrase that the Government is trying to ram this through. It seems to me that the Opposition has been trying to ram through a new order in the House and a new precedent.

Comment on this

This is an important matter.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

It is an important matter. Questions on Policy or Legislation is being compromised.

Comment on this

It seems that in the new order Deputies McDonald and Bacik will dictate who forms the groups in this House.

Comment on this

That is not the case.

Comment on this

We have freedom of association.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputies should resume their seats.

Comment on this

It is a fundamental, basic principle that people are allowed to associate with whom they like. That is the first point. That is being denied here for the first time.

I have never seen this before, since I became a Member of Dáil Éireann. There has been a bit of a herd-like attitude to this debate among the Opposition and some commentators. People have not looked at the fundamental principles underpinning all of this. In the next six weeks alone, 90 priority questions will be asked here. Sinn Féin will have 47 of them, the Labour Party 12, the Social Democrats 11 and there will be zero for backbenchers on the Government side.

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

If Deputies do not want to hear the answer, we will move on.

Comment on this

The people who elected their TDs-----

Comment on this

With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, I have had to listen for five or six minutes-----

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The point is they do not want to listen, so we will just move to the vote.

Comment on this

I want to make a point. The people have elected TDs-----

Comment on this

Where is Michael Lowry? Where is the architect of this?

Comment on this

People would be shocked by the idea that their TDs do not have the right to speak or ask questions-----

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

You have 20 minutes to address Deputy Collins's question. Please do so.

Comment on this

-----whether they are in a political party or not. We are not going to be railroaded, browbeaten or intimidated by the Opposition in terms of its tactics.

I will be very happy to facilitate a debate on the issue of flooding in Cork. The Deputy asked last week for a debate on the Housing Commission and there will be statements on it on Thursday. If we can do it this week, we will.

Comment on this

What about Taoiseach's Questions?

Comment on this
Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Are the proposed arrangements agreed to?

Comment on this
Deputies

Not agreed.

Comment on this
Division Carried

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

Tá 88
·
Níl 62

Do you agree with this result?