As we all know, the Ceann Comhairle ruled on 3 February that the Lowry grouping is not in opposition. Let us respect that ruling.

Hear, hear

The only manufacturing going on is the Taoiseach seeking to manufacture a sham Opposition, pretending that this is about speaking rights for Government backbenchers. He knows it is not. Everyone in the country knows it is not because all Government backbenchers, including those in the Lowry group, have privileged access to Government Ministers and they already have speaking time. I feel sorry for Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael backbenchers. Very few of them have been out defending the indefensible on the airwaves because they know they have speaking time already. They know they have in Questions on Policy or Legislation and Taoiseach's Questions. The Government's proposal will make them lose out too. They will not be able to dominate Taoiseach's questions any longer, because he has used this row to give himself Wednesday afternoons off, slashing that slot to carve out time for the Lowry gang. This is the indefensible. It is manufacturing a sham Opposition. We all know what this is really about.

Thank you, Deputy.

You acknowledged yourself-----

Thank you Deputy.

-----that Michael Lowry is in government when you promised the public that he-----

Deputy, your time is up. Allow the Taoiseach to respond.

-----would "not be in government to do any corruption", so what is this all about?

Deputy Bacik, thank you.

What is the hold that he and his group have on you?

It is a sad day.

That is what people want to know about this stroke.

The Deputy feigns sympathy for the Government backbenchers-----

So do you.

Of course we do.

-----but there is an issue around proportionality in terms of how the Dáil is structured. In recent times, from 2016 onwards when we changed the thresholds to allow smaller groups to be formed, there has been a wholly disproportionate platform for some representatives, such as when one Independent joins three or four other Independents. They have had far more speaking time than Government backbenchers have had over the last five years and that is going to change. This is an attempt to rebalance that.

Deputies.

Then it has taken you nine years to stand up for your own backbenchers.

The Taoiseach is very selective.

I am not very selective

You are.

Deputy, with the greatest of respect, your party was very grateful for the fact we were sympathetic enough-----

To clean up your mess.

-----to accommodate you when you lost a whole range of seats.

We have never been grateful to Fianna Fáil.

Deputy. The Taoiseach has ten seconds left.

He is running out of time all right.

I do not expect-----

Maybe he will provide an answer in those ten seconds-----

-----that the democratic process operates like this-----

-----on what hold Deputy Lowry has on him.

-----and I do not think the public do either. Could you please allow it to continue?

A Cheann Comhairle, the public do not want to see a stroke happening like the Government is attempting today.

Taoiseach, you have ten seconds or we can move on.

I am fine.

You are fine. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan on Leaders' Questions.

Maybe Mr. Lowry has something to say about all this.

Will he finally make a statement? Do you want to make a statement, Mr. Lowry? Silence from Deputy Lowry.

Deputy, allow your colleague to have his time for Leaders' Questions.

Just on a point of order-----

There is not a point of order-----

You have to hear him first.

Deputy Lowry said he wanted to make a statement. Does he want to make one now?

Deputy, there is no point-----

Would he like to make a statement now? He said he was going to make a statement. He was beating his chest that he was going to make a statement. Where is Deputy Lowry's statement?

There is no point of order-----

Can we have a statement from Deputy Lowry?

-----when the Chair is standing. Deputy O'Callaghan, please.

Get your time back, Cian.

Will I not get three minutes, a Cheann Comhairle? No. Okay.

It is your friends' fault.

No, it is your fault. It is your stroke.

It is your friends' fault.

The Taoiseach's efforts to defend the indefensible are not working. Dáil rules are being reverse-engineered to guarantee one outcome, that is, that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael will deliver on the deal they have made with Michael Lowry. That is what it all boils down to. The Taoiseach's backbenchers are well aware he would not be going to these extremes for them. The truth is the Government has caused chaos in this Dáil and delayed setting up committees to facilitate Michael Lowry and keep him happy. The public have a right to know what was in the deal with Michael Lowry. The Taoiseach should come clean on that. This is a shameless political stroke that would make even Bertie blush. There are clear lines of separation between Government and Opposition because we have different functions. That has always been recognised in Dáil procedures because it is fundamental to how this place operates. It is the job of Government TDs to support the Government and of Opposition TDs to hold the Government to account. Is this accountability what the Government is afraid of and so desperate to avoid?

In a way I get it. This Government has already made a disaster in terms of broken election promises. It spectacularly failed to deliver 40,000 homes it promised last year. It promised to prioritise enacting the occupied territories Bill but it has been put on the long finger. Government parties spent the election promising tax cuts and enormous spending increases even though we in the Social Democrats warned this was reckless behaviour and now the finance Minister has admitted those promised tax cuts are highly unlikely to ever materialise. The truth is Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael cannot be trusted.

After Fianna Fáil bankrupted the country and the troika took over in 2010 we were promised, "Never again". Reforms of Dáil procedure to strengthen Opposition oversight were introduced post crash. It is clear the Government has forgotten about the lessons of the past. Instead of strengthening accountability it wants to weaken it. Stroke politics and dodgy deals with Michael Lowry have taken precedence and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are reverting to type - arrogant complacency. Does the Taoiseach really think people voted for that? He made a pledge that any changes to Standing Orders would be done in agreement with the Opposition. It is clear he has no intention of honouring that.

Another broken promise.

Given this track record of duplicity, why should anyone in the Opposition or the public trust what he says?

The people voted in the last general election-----

They did not vote for Michael Lowry.

-----and they clearly voted, whether you like it or not-----

It seems the election result never sunk in with people on the opposite side.

No. False pretences.

You misled people-----

A three-card trick.

-----and now you are pulling a stroke.

That is just a reality. Therefore, it fell to this side of the House-----

We did not see Micheal Lowry in the manifesto.

You misled people.

-----to form a government.

You are trying to control-----

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael did not have the numbers.

Please. The Taoiseach is addressing Deputy O'Callaghan.

You were not really interested in going into government.

Come on.

Give us a break.

You had no interest at all. You had none. Your manifesto was so threadbare in any detail that it was no wonder.

Well yours was a pack of lies.

Michael Lowry's manifesto. What was that about?

The Labour Party did not want to go into government------

Deputies.

The Labour Party did not want to go into government because it was watching you. You are both watching each other. You are both nervous of each other, so therefore you did not come forward.

Sinn Féin did not have the numbers to form a government-----

The Taoiseach is being asked a very specific set of questions. He could answer them.

-----and Independent Ireland had some issues that we did not find agreement with but at least its members came in and engaged with us in a substantive way. The Regional Independent Group said they wanted to support and facilitate the formation of a government.

As you are talking about it, what was the deal?

What was the deal?

That is not new, by the way. That is not new.

Exactly, they are in government.

This has been a feature of our fragmented system.

Please.

Our electoral system has in recent times and will in the future create a fragmented result. The danger in what the Opposition is saying is-----

It is called deflection.

Say after the next general election in five years' time, a potential government is short three or four TDs. Why would three or four Independent TDs volunteer to facilitate the formation of a government?

Why would they?

Exactly. Answer that question.

Why would they do that if it meant-----

Deputies.

-----that the rest of the Opposition said, "We are going to deny you your rights as TDs if you dare facilitate and support the Government". Looking at it from my perspective-----

You are making it worse the longer you are on your feet.

-----and from a constitutional perspective, it is quite an extraordinary thing you are trying to do here which will actually-----

Protect democracy.

Hold you to your word is what he is trying to get you to do.

-----undermine any potential for the formation of a government into the future.

Nonsense.

You are now basically saying that no Independent in the future-----

Please.

The Taoiseach has been asked some very specific questions and he is refusing to answer them.

You are not a leader yet, Deputy.

You have been asked very specific questions here Taoiseach. We deserve an answer. Will you respect the decision of the Ceann Comhairle?

Deputy, I am standing.

Will the Taoiseach respect the decision of the Ceann Comhairle?

Deputy, I am standing.

Will the Taoiseach respect the decision of the Ceann Comhairle?

Whether you like what is being said or not, you will have respect for the position of the Ceann Comhairle. When the Ceann Comhairle stands, you sit-----

And I am sitting-----

-----and it does not matter who you are.

The Taoiseach should have respect for the Ceann Comhairle.

I have asked you to sit. I am speaking, Deputy.

And I can hear you.

I do not wish to spell respect. We are all adults. We are well aware of what we-----

There has to be respect for the democratic process-----

Excuse me, Deputy.

We are asking for the Taoiseach to respect the decision the Ceann Comhairle made.

It is very apparent-----

We are asking that the Taoiseach respect the decision that he is riding roughshod over.

-----here today now that nobody is interested in hearing answers.

We want answers.

We would love to hear an answer.

The Taoiseach is not interested in giving us answers.

Afford him the respect to at least have the answer listened to.

That is an interpretation, Ceann Comhairle.

We would love answers.

This is a pantomime with no answers.

It is using up Deputy O'Callaghan's time. Does the Deputy wish to make his minute heard? His Opposition colleagues clearly do not.

Yes, we do.

We do.

The Taoiseach is right. This is quite extraordinary-----

I did not get a chance to finish what I was saying.

Yes, but in more than 100 years of this Dáil, never ever in the weekly schedule has there a time slot created where 100% of the time is allocated to the Government. Does the Taoiseach not see something fundamentally wrong-----

Leader's Questions.

-----with a time slot being created where Government TDs ask the Taoiseach questions without any input from the Opposition? Can the Taoiseach tell me of any parliament in the world where there is a time slot where 100% of it-----

North Korea.

-----is for government backbenchers to ask government leaders questions with no time allocated to the opposition? That does not exist. Therefore, this is quite extraordinary and it should not be done. Will he tell me one place in the world where this happens?

It is not happening here.

Westminster.

No, it does not.

Do you want to go back there?

Please, Deputies.

Deputies, I am making the point in answer to the question - in fairness the Deputy has asked questions and I think I should be allowed the right to answer but other Deputies do not want me to because they do not like the answer.

Want to try again?

How is that going now?

Hold the Government to account.

What I would say to you is this; in the future, for example, there could be three or four TDs who could facilitate the formation of a Government. What the Deputy is now saying is that Independent TDs in the future attempting to facilitate the formation of a Government will have their rights diminished. That is the essence of the Opposition proposal.

The Deputy deserves an answer.

He has had four chances and he still has not answered the question.

Take Deputies McGrath and Nolan, for example, they are part of this group. They have voted against the Government three or four times already but the Deputy and others are taking it upon themselves to tell them they must be corralled in a certain part of the Dáil and can only be allowed to do A, B and C. That is unconstitutional. You have no right to do that. You have absolutely no right to do that and it is wrong.

A Cheann Comhairle, is he doing this for his own backbenchers or is he doing it for Deputy McGrath? We need clarity on that issue now. Who is the Taoiseach actually fighting for now?

Sit down, Deputy. You are making a show of yourself; sit down. I thank the Taoiseach, his time is up. I call Deputy Collins.

Time is definitely up.

If we go ahead today with Government proposals on giving extra time for Government-backing TDs in Opposition time, it shows how far this Government is capable of going in eroding the democracy of the island of Ireland.

Hear, hear.

Our general election took place on 29 November 2024, and for a couple of months a Government had to be put together. On 22 January, the Dáil sat and for the first time was forced to call off Dáil proceedings so an agreement could be made to bring this speaking row to an end. All of this time we the Opposition were united on one front: that Deputy Lowry's group had a right to speaking time in this Dáil but not on Opposition time.

Hear, hear.

Every effort by the Government since has been to do everything but that. On the morning of 23 January, the Taoiseach and Tánaiste met with us leaders to end this row and let the Dáil get back to the business it had to do - elect the Taoiseach, set up committees - and we all agreed we would work together to create a solution on this hugely important issue for the country.

Less than an hour later, the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, read a statement into the Dáil record. It was agreed by the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and all the Opposition that, "the Government will today bring forward a motion to establish the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform...and to work to secure agreement, as soon as possible and acceptable to Government and Opposition, as regards formation of technical groups." The Business Committee met that day and agreed we would all put forward submissions on a way forward. Again, the Opposition was clear. We never denied any speaking times to Michael Lowry's group of six TDs but this would be specifically during Government speaking time slots, not Opposition-----

Hear, hear.

-----as they have clearly agreed to support this Government one way or another, which is their own prerogative I may add. The next scheduled meeting of the Dáil reform committee was scheduled for 26 February. At this meeting came the bombshell from the Government Chief Whip, Deputy Mary Butler, that the previous verbal agreement given by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste and read out by the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, was now being reneged on------

Hear, hear.

Shameful.

------and a railroading of democracy was going ahead. When summing up today, the Taoiseach will say we had enough time to try to get an agreement from the Opposition but it would not agree. Since the day he was elected, however, we have only had two meetings of the Dáil reform committee to try to resolve this issue in 28 days. I know because I attended these meetings. Is the Taoiseach a man of his word or not? Does he agree with me that this was the sequence of events? Am I right in saying if he really wanted to bring this to a fair and honest end, he would have asked his Chief Whip to meet every day to resolve the issue and not two meetings - one to iron out the procedures for the next meeting and the next to railroad through, making a mockery of this House and its procedures?

Hear, hear.

We have written to the Taoiseach numerous times to try to resolve this issue and to make sure this dark day for democracy would not happen but he has chosen to ignore it. Will the Taoiseach at this late stage, sit down with the Opposition leaders and thrash out an agreement to bring this sorry episode to an end?

He will only deal at Dáil times.

Hear, hear.

End of stroke politics.

Such hyperbole is really stretching it. The bottom line is this-----

End of stroke politics.

Does your word mean anything?

Obviously not.

------that three of the Opposition parties gain more time in terms of holding the Government to account. That is the factual position, as a result of 20 hours of discussions and so forth between the Chief Whip and the Whips of the other parties and also in terms of the committee on Dáil reform. That is the mechanism we have established in terms of the committee on Dáil Reform.

Deflection again.

Allow a debate here.

I say to the Deputy, from his perspective he is not losing any time.

We are.

We are losing time at the Order of Business and Taoiseach's Questions.

You are not compared to the last Dáil, you are actually gaining time and that is the bottom line here.

Deputies will have their chance. This is Deputy Collins's question.

This was raised earlier. If you compare Dáil Éireann to any other parliament in Europe, you will find the Opposition has more time than any other Opposition in any other parliament across Europe. Certainly in terms of Prime Ministers across Europe, no Prime Minister is in parliament more than the Irish Taoiseach is in Dáil Éireann.

This can be checked out and looked at in terms of other parliaments across Europe. This proposal is proportionate because it is endeavouring to give backbench TDs of the Government parties and Independent TDs an opportunity-----

-----with eight minutes on a Tuesday or on a Wednesday. All this row, about the dark days of Irish democracy, is about eight minutes extra on a Tuesday and eight minutes extra on a Wednesday-----

It is stroke politics.

Deputies, please.

This apparently means we are on the brink of a terrible sort of negativity and so on.

Deputies, please.

Over the past ten years, there has been a consistent, incremental increase in time allocated to smaller groups within the Dáil and to Independents within the Dáil. There is a group on the far left that has about three or four Members with more speaking rights than other with 40 TDs or more.

That has been the reality over the past ten years.

There needs to be a degree of rebalancing.

Is Deputy Lowry a Government TD?

Backbench Deputies need the opportunity to ask questions.

Deputies, please.

There is no big deal in that. It does not in any way-----

The big demand from members of the Opposition at the beginning, when we met with them, was not to lose any time. They have not lost any time.

It is Stockholm syndrome.

The Opposition groups have actually gained time.

This is Deputy Collins's time.

All this just for Deputy Michael Lowry.

It is a difference of 25 hours.

It is interesting. I made a fundamental point. When a general election happens, and the Deputy knows this because they have engaged with us at different times after different elections, Governments have to be formed.

There is the realpolitik of forming a government. Governments have to be formed.

Some people have no interest in forming a government. That is fair enough but others do. The programme for Government-----

Deputies, please.

The programme for Government is the document that binds the people who are going to support the Government together. Underlying all of this, and the Deputy said we could have brought this to an end, I actually do not believe the Opposition wants to bring this to an end.

The Opposition is enjoying it a bit for its own electoral purposes. However, I want to make this point-----

The time is up. I thank the Taoiseach. I call on Deputy Collins to respond.