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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Gaza blockade and arms overflights

Summary

Deputies O'Callaghan and Paul Murphy press the Tánaiste on Gaza, humanitarian access, Israeli conduct, and reports that weaponry is being carried through Irish airspace. The Tánaiste condemns the situation in Gaza, says Ireland remains strongly supportive of Palestine, and states that allegations of Irish law breaches are being examined by the Department of Transport and would have consequences if proven.

The Israeli blockade on Gaza is now in its third month. No food, no water and no medicines have crossed into Gaza in that time. The only things that Israel has sent in are bombs and bullets. As it slowly starves the civilian population, it has continued its relentless bombardment. Yesterday alone at least 59 people were killed in air strikes on two schools. People huddling together in a school, terrified and hungry, were targeted yet again by this murderous regime and still the international community does nothing.

Netanyahu and his government have been clear in their words and deeds. Its expressed goal is the annihilation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people, and they are not hiding it. They do not care how many innocent men, women and children are killed in Gaza. They do not view them as human and they do not care about their suffering. The genocide they are committing is not a secret. It is happening out in the open as world leaders stand by and do nothing.

We have seen nearly two years of relentless barbarism by the Israeli state in Gaza. No one can claim to be surprised anymore by the depths of its depravity. What is shocking though is the continued silence, hypocrisy and inaction from those in power. Last week the EU President Ursula von der Leyen announced the EU was sending help to the region. This, however, was not to assist children in Gaza who are starving or being burned alive in tents. It was to help extinguish forest fires in Israel. She said that this was EU solidarity in action. There is EU solidarity for forest fires but not for the men, women and children starving in Gaza.

On "The Late Late Show" last Friday the Tánaiste said he did not believe weapons are being flown through Irish airspace on their way to Israel. On what basis did he make this claim? Recognising the gravity of what is happening in Gaza, he also said that we have to do more. Specifically what more will he do? He also confirmed that passing a law relating to the occupied territories is going to take place. Yet, the Government did not commit to passing the occupied territories Bill, which was our legislation with the same aims. We are now five months into this Government and no closer to enacting this crucial Bill. There are reports today that the Tánaiste has not yet even sought approval from Cabinet for drafting the legislation and that when he does, he intends to exclude services from the ban. Enacting legislation to ban trade from the occupied territories was a key commitment of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael during the election. Why is the Tánaiste dragging his feet on this? Why is he proposing to water down the Bill by excluding services?

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I am not dragging my feet. Regardless of our political persuasion or whichever party we are in, or whether the people watching from home support Government parties, Opposition parties or neither, people in this country are sickened, appalled and disgusted by what we are seeing in what Israel has done in Gaza and what the Israeli Government, as the Deputy rightly said, is very openly and blatantly proposing to do in relation to Gaza. That does require all of us to do more and I include Ireland in that.

I do not share the Deputy's view of what Europe has done to date. The European Union, of which Ireland is a part, has provided very significant financial assistance to UNRWA on a multi-annual basis, only agreed a couple of weeks ago at the first EU-Palestinian high level dialogue, to help support the Palestinian Authority. Action is being taken on that but Israel is not listening. Nothing that has happened to date has changed the situation here in terms of Israel actually showing restraint, or issuing statements calling for restraint, when there is a government in Israel that plans doing the exact opposite.

What we are doing here at a national level is continuing to work at EU level. That makes sense. I said this to Senator Black yesterday. If this is about having impact and applying maximum pressure to help bring about a ceasefire, a cessation of violence and a two-state solution, the EU living up to its obligations under the human rights clauses of the association agreement is what has to happen.

I was interested yesterday to see the Netherlands join Ireland's and Spain's call for this to happen. In the hours ahead I intend to speak to counterparts to see if more countries will come on board and echo Ireland's call. The human rights clauses in trade agreements or association agreements are not there for padding. They are not there to make the agreement longer. They are not discretionary extras and they have to count for something. We are all pretty furious that they do not seem to count for something at the moment. We will continue to work at that.

Let me be clear that we are going to take forward legislation on the occupied Palestinian territories. The programme for Government is clear on that. We intend to honour that. I had a very good meeting with Senator Frances Black yesterday. She is a very good person and her motive here is to try to do some good. At that meeting I committed to going to the Government this month to seek a decision to move forward on that. We will have a longer time to discuss the contents of what is in that legislation but I will have to be honest in only being able to put something in the legislation that will stand up to legal scrutiny and that is in compliance with the laws by which we have to operate. There is a benefit of publishing a Government Bill and going to an Oireachtas committee. I will not speak for the Senator but I think she saw the benefit in this too, which is the opportunity to actually tease this out and to bring in people and hear different perspectives, to get the best legislation possible. I hope that in Ireland bringing forward legislation it might encourage and spur other countries to say, "We could do that too". If the EU refuses to act as a collective on this, why do a number of member states not do what we are proposing to do here in Ireland?

Comment on this

I put a couple of questions to the Tánaiste that he has not answered. The key issue is that EU humanitarian aid is not getting into Gaza because the actions that need to be taken by the international community to ensure it happens are not being taken. People in Gaza cannot wait any longer; they need action now.

The Government must do everything it can to stop munitions going through Irish airspace. According to The Ditch, Israel's national carrier brought 1,500 kg of arms through Irish airspace last year labelling them as weapons in their paperwork.

Have these reports been investigated? Why is the Government not acting to stop the illegal transfer of weapons through Irish airspace? With regard to the occupied territories Bill, I ask specifically about the inclusion of services. The Tánaiste knows very well that international trade is not just about goods; it is also about services. Why are services not being included in the proposed legislation? There is no legal basis for excluding services. It is a key part of trade. That is the commitment the Tánaiste made during the election on the occupied territories Bill and trade. He did not exclude services. Why is he reneging on that promise now?

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is not a matter of reneging on anything. I do not mind saying in this House, and I would be very happy to engage and share this more fully, but the legal advice available to me is that there is a narrow pathway - and it is a narrow pathway - under the ICJ advisory opinion for member states to seek to move ahead unilaterally, for want of a better phrase. We have not yet been able to identify the narrow pathway on services. That is the truth. It is not a policy position; it is a legal position. However, as I said to Senator Black, who has a different legal position, is that we are happy to engage on this. There is not a policy difference or policy objective differences; there truthfully is not. However, there is a need to make sure any Bill can withstand the inevitable challenge that this will face. I am happy to work through this.

Regarding the issue of Irish airspace, I did honestly say that it is hard to have the level of knowledge that I think we all need to have in terms of what happens in our skies. I do not just mean in our skies, but more internationally. I did say that we will have to look and consider whether we need to change domestic legislation and whether we need to work at an international level in terms of the legislation and covenants, many of which date back to the 1940s, that govern this as well. We have clear laws regarding what can and cannot go through Irish sovereign territory and the requirement to seek an exemption from the Minister for Transport, and that, of course, is the point of reference I was making.

Comment on this

These are the Tánaiste's words:

Children are starving. Basic painkilling medicine cannot be accessed. Hospitals are being bombed and the scale of death and destruction in Gaza is almost unimaginable. It is certainly unconscionable. Famine is a real risk for many Gazans and children are even dying as we speak ... We cannot and will not stand idly by and let this happen.

These are the Tánaiste's words, but standing by is exactly what the Government is doing regarding the thousands of tonnes of weaponry flown through Irish sovereign airspace since October 2023 to the Israeli military, namely, F-35 combat jet components, munitions from Lockheed Martin and IMI Systems, missile launchers, Smith and Wesson handguns, ammunition primer, detonator, detonating fuses and teargas. I could go on. Multiple airlines are doing it repeatedly, namely, Lufthansa, Delta Airlines, FedEx, Challenge, Silk Way Airlines and EL AL. They are flown without permission from the Irish State. It is a criminal offence which carries a three-year prison sentence for the owner or hirer of the aircraft. The Tánaiste is not just turning a blind eye to it; he is gaslighting us about it. He told the Dáil last June that "no ... Irish sovereign airspace is being used to transport weapons to the conflict in the Middle East." Last Friday, on "The Late Late Show", the Tánaiste said he does not believe that Irish skies are being used to transport weapons to Israel. Now he tells the Dáil that it is hard to have the level of knowledge that we need to have about these flights.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

That is what it is.

Comment on this

How could the Tánaiste say these things? The Ditch has informed him, and I am very happy to pass over a folder of waybills from the airlines themselves. We do not need to investigate it; the airlines themselves are declaring that they are carrying weapons. These have been sent to the Tánaiste repeatedly, not just after the fact, but in advance of the fact. One of the receipts I have here from FedEx clearly lists the tracking number and flags it as international traffic in arms regulations, ITAR, goods. On 23 October 2024, The Ditch emailed the Tánaiste, stating:

We wish to advise you that FedEx flight FDX4 ... from Memphis to Cologne is carrying at least three munitions of war packages for delivery to Nevatim IDF Air Base in Israel. This aircraft departed Memphis just over an hour ago, and its flight plan indicates it will enter Irish sovereign airspace this afternoon.

[...]

FedEx has designated the three packages - which we understand are Lockheed Martin F-35 combat jet components - as ... (ITAR) goods. The F-35 is a weapon of war used by the [IDF] to kill civilians - including journalists - in Gaza.

The Tánaiste knows about it. Why does he say he does not believe it is happening? Is he claiming he has not received this evidence? Or is he saying that he has received this evidence but that he thinks the airlines are somehow, for some reason, lying about having weapons and munitions on their planes? Is the Tánaiste going to act? Will he keep saying the world needs to act, that we need to do more and cannot stand idly by, and then continue to precisely stand idly by while weapons go through Irish airspace to be used for a genocide?

Comment on this
Conor D McGuinness Deputy Conor D. McGuinness Sinn Féin

Hear, hear.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I think this is probably the only Parliament in the world where Members of the Parliament stand up and suggest that the Irish Government's position is anything other than supportive of the people of Palestine. It is usually quite the opposite, in fact. Any of us who attend international meetings and forums will know that Ireland is usually seen as almost an outlier - worryingly, perhaps - in terms of our level of support for international law, for human rights, for the people of Palestine, for a two-state solution and in calling out, as our Taoiseach did, the war crimes being committed by Israel. Coming to this Chamber, I get a completely different representation. Ireland is not standing idly by. Deputy Murphy quoted my words, I think, of this Tuesday. Ireland is not standing idly by. Ireland has already outlined even more steps that this country intends to take, both domestically and internationally, with regard to supporting the people of Palestine, but more profoundly, in terms of supporting international law and human rights. We continue to do that and will continue to do that at every opportunity.

Deputy Murphy also said I said something earlier as though I said it for the first time. I also said it on Friday night in the interview to which he referred, that we do need to have a better understanding and knowledge as to what happens above our skies and indeed below our seas. I find it somewhat ironic that the Deputy who raises this issue is the same Deputy who would oppose any increase in defence spending to increase the capabilities of Óglaigh na hÉireann in terms of monitoring what happens in our skies and below our seas, because that is exactly what we need to do. The Deputy can shake his head if he wants-----

Comment on this

They are on the waybills. I can give them to the Tánaiste-----

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I know-----

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Too busy standing up to journalists.

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We do not need aircraft to find out about it.

Comment on this
John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Tánaiste to continue.

Comment on this

They are telling the Tánaiste that they are carrying weapons-----

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John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Murphy.

Comment on this

-----and he is not doing anything about it.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Murphy for shouting me down again. I know his party is having difficulty this week as they will not take questions from some journalists if they do not like the questions. When he comes to the House, he asks me a question and will not allow me to answer it. He does not take questions from some and does not accept answers from others. Do not shout me down, please, on an important issue.

With regard to this situation, I have made it very clear what Irish law states. As a Government Minister and a leader in Government, we obviously rely on the laws of our land. The laws are very clear with regard to the Air Navigation (Carriage of Munitions of War, Weapons and Dangerous Goods) Orders of 1973 and 1989, that expressly prohibits civil aircraft from carrying munitions of war in Irish sovereign territory without being granted an exemption to do so by the Minister for Transport.

I have also made the point that it is one thing about what people wish to inspect when it is on the ground but, when a plane is at 30,000 ft or 35,000 ft in the air, I would be very interested in hearing from the Deputy his practical and implementable solutions in terms of what more we can do. I do not say that, by the way, in any flippant way, because, to be very clear, I think we need to do more on this and that we need to see change internationally regarding this. This being dictated from international covenants and agreements of the 1940s does not reflect the reality today. I also think we need to have better clarity and understanding around munitions and parts, and absolute clarity as to what needs to be declared, because the law of this country is clear and robust in terms of Irish sovereign airspace, but then there are also the practicalities in terms of the implementation. Work is ongoing in the Department of Transport. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, confirmed that to me again as recently as this morning, in terms of what more measures Ireland needs to take with regard to our own law or what more measures Ireland needs to seek to take internationally.

Comment on this

We can see the Tánaiste's studied, deliberate and false ignorance, pretending that he does not know what is going on and suggesting we need to have aircraft to inspect commercial airlines in the sky over Ireland. What is he suggesting? Again, it is very simple. I am really happy to give these waybills from the aircraft to the Tánaiste that repeatedly show that thousands of tonnes of weaponry have gone through Irish airspace on the way to be used in a genocide in Gaza. This is not a mystery; the airlines admit it.

A few months ago, the previous Government had some sort of examination in the Department of Transport. What happened to that examination? The Tánaiste wants to know my practical solution. My practical solution is that the Minister for Transport should prosecute the companies. It is the law. They are currently breaking the law. I will give the Tánaiste another suggestion, which actually came from the now Taoiseach. Micheál Martin said last September that there had to be consequences for airlines that do this, that they should not be allowed to-----

Comment on this
John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Thank you, Deputy.

Comment on this

-----fly through our airspace if they violate these basic laws. Does the Tánaiste agree with that? Is he going to act to stop-----

Comment on this
John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Thank you, Deputy Murphy

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-----Silk Way, Challenge, Delta and Lufthansa continuing to fly? We actually need action-----

Comment on this
John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

You might observe the laws of the House, Deputy, please.

Comment on this

Would the Tánaiste like me to drop these over to him, the emails and so on, in order that he has them? Does he need them? Would he like me to drop them over to him?

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I will wait until the Deputy is finished. I thank him.

Comment on this

I will drop them over to him.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

He is coming over to me. I thank the Deputy for that but, obviously, the process through which the Government will go is examining the allegations. The Department of Transport is examining them. I agree that any breaches of Irish law must of course have a consequence. Irish law matters. I am very clear on that, as is the Taoiseach and the Minister for Transport. If there have been breaches of Irish sovereign law, decisions will need to be taken on the next steps based on clear and robust evidence. We also need to be clear - and this is the point I was trying to make - that if existing legislation does not provide for the implemention of a system of routine and random inspections but rather requires that there first be an appearance of intention or likelihood for a civil aircraft to depart from a point in the State in a manner that would contravene the legislation, for example, carrying munitions, it is a legitimate question for the Government. I will consider whether we need to amend our domestic legislation and whether more needs to happen internationally. I am very clear that any breach of Irish law cannot be consequence-free. I agree with the Deputy on that. The Department of Transport is carrying out a robust examination of all these matters and it would advise the Government on what next steps are required.

Comment on this