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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Supermarket profit transparency

Summary

Cairns demanded action requiring supermarkets to disclose profits amid rising grocery prices; the Minister said the CCPC was investigating excessive pricing and argued that legislative change and stronger competition were needed.

On behalf of all of the Social Democrats team, I also want to thank Julie for everything. I wish her huge congratulations on her retirement.

Before I begin, I want to say my thoughts are also with all those on the Global Sumud Flotilla, including Members of the Oireachtas, who were hit by drone strikes overnight. This is just another example of Israel operating in blatant breach of international law. There has to be consequences.

My question for the Minister is quite simple. What is he doing about large supermarkets that refuse to report their profits? Increases in grocery prices have been rapid and relentless. I know that, the Minister knows that and everybody who is doing their weekly shop knows that. I think we all have a fairly good idea why. Large supermarket chains are gouging their customers but we cannot prove it. Why? It is because they refuse to declare their profits and the Government refuses to make them.

The Society of St. Vincent de Paul has stated that nearly half of calls to it this year were about a single issue, namely, groceries. According to Barnardos, four in ten parents are skipping meals or eating less themselves to feed their children. Ireland is a wealthy country; it should not be such a struggle just to survive, because that is what we are talking about. We are talking about the cost of simply existing in this country - putting a roof over your head, keeping the lights on and putting food on the table. More and more people are finding life completely unaffordable.

The grocery market in Ireland is worth at least €10 billion per year and yet there is little to no transparency about its profits. Today, it was announced that Dunnes Stores in the North increased its profits last year by a whopping 44%. That is a staggering increase at a time when so many people are struggling. We do not know what the profit margins are in this jurisdiction because Dunnes Stores does not have to tell us. It does not have to file annual accounts and the Government refuses to do anything about it.

Many of us have long suspected the consumers in Ireland are being gouged by large supermarket chains but without full transparency on profit levels it is very difficult to prove this. The profits announced by Dunnes Stores in the North today do tell us one thing though, that business for it is booming but for its customers it is another story.

The Social Democrats have now been highlighting this issue for years. We have asked the Government to force large supermarket chains to publish their profits and to give more powers to the food regulator and consumer regulator so they can investigate and prevent supermarkets from ripping off their customers.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Deputy.

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However, the Government has done nothing.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Minister to respond.

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What will the Minister do to address this issue?

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I thank the Deputy for her question. Her statement that the Government is doing nothing is not in fact correct. The Minister of State who has responsibility for this area and who has been engaging with the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, is Minister Dillon, and he met representatives of the CCPC in June and has asked it to conduct an analysis of the Irish grocery retail sector with a view to determining whether there is evidence of excessive pricing. The CCPC is expected to report back in the coming weeks.

This week, we saw another example of the work of the CCPC in protecting consumers. A warning letter was issued to the motor industry. We feel the powers of the CCPC should be strengthened further. If the Deputy knows the programme for Government she will see that we committed in it to giving more powers to the CCPC. I know this has been prioritised in the Department of enterprise by Minister Burke and Ministers of State Dillon and Troy.

The measures the Government is taking are designed to reduce the cost of groceries in Ireland. However, I have to say we have a very competitive grocery sector in Ireland. We will try to ensure through Government interaction with the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission that prices are brought down and that the most competitive prices are available. We also need to recognise that people can get cheaper prices elsewhere and I urge people to engage in a competitive assessment of the prices that are available.

In terms of the proposals the Deputy puts forward, she said the Social Democrats have been advocating that we require the grocery sector to publish profits. Bring forward legislation and the Government will examine it. Obviously, there are reasons certain companies are not required to publish profits, predominantly because they are private companies that are not required to publish information such as that. If the Social Democrats believe that should be changed, bring forward legislation in terms of what should be set out in the Companies Act and the Government will give consideration to it.

It is obviously a complicated issue in terms of trying to intervene and impose obligations on certain companies that are involved in the grocery business as opposed to other companies that are involved elsewhere. It is obviously and necessarily going to be the case that whatever company their legislative proposal would engage with would have to apply across the board to all private companies.

I will speak again to the relevant Ministers in respect of this. I am aware of the profits being made in the grocery sector but the Government is working on it issue and has engaged with the CCPC and will continue to do so. If the Deputy wants a legislative change I urge her and the Social Democrats to put forward amending legislation and the Government will give consideration to it.

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The fact of the matter is that the Dunnes Stores operation in the North has recorded a 44% increase in profits. Let that sink in. The Minister cannot tell me what Dunnes Stores' increase in profits is in this jurisdiction because Dunnes Stores, the country's biggest supermarket chain, does not have to be transparent here.

In an interview with the Sunday Independent in July, Simon Harris said that supermarkets should publish their profits. He said, "The more transparency, the better. Why wouldn't they be transparent? What do they have to hide?". He said this just a few days after voting against the Social Democrats' motion calling for just that. The hypocrisy is staggering. The Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Dillon, are in government, so they can do more than have meetings and narrate the situation; they can intervene. They can change the law, they can empower the regulators and they can force supermarkets to publish their profits. The question is: why are they acting like a Cabinet of bystanders-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Deputy.

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-----narrating the problem instead of actually doing something about it?

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Deputy. The Minister to respond.

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I should point out that in order for this to happen, the law in the country has to change. The law can be changed-----

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You are the Government.

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The entity that changes the law is the Oireachtas. Government proposes laws and has the advantage of the majority in the Houses of the Oireachtas but there is nothing stopping Opposition parties from bringing forward legislation that they believe will change the law. Motions are-----

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The Government voted down our proposals on this.

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-----easy to bring forward and they get covered-----

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Why did the Government vote against it?

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy O'Callaghan, your leader has posed the question.

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------but the hard work is done when it comes to drafting legislation.

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Work which the Government is not doing.

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If a Member believes legislation should be introduced to change the law, they should come forward with that legislation. We need to be careful about vilifying grocers. There are a lot of grocers in Ireland that provide a lot of employment to people. Of course, they make profits. It is our job to ensure that their profits are not excessive and that we curtail them. The best way to do that is through the CCPC and engagement with the consumer protection entity. The more competition there is in the business, the more prices come down. Prices coming down benefits the consumer.

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