-----has published a strategy on.

I want to take up where we left off yesterday. When explaining why the Government was not going to buy Bessborough the Taoiseach said:

Excavation without evidence of location is neither feasible nor lawful [because] Under the Institutional Burials Act 2022, the Government can only [start an excavation] where it is satisfied that burials have taken place and there is evidence that those burials are manifestly inappropriate.

He then said, "I am advised that the legal threshold cannot currently be met because the location of many burials remains unknown." I cannot have been the only person listening who was stunned. The Government knows that 859 children and 19 women who were incarcerated at Bessborough are missing, presumed dead. It knows the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes said it was highly likely that burials had taken place on this land. It has all the evidence of abuse, suspicious deaths, disappeared women and children and likely burial, and the Taoiseach is telling us he is powerless to act because legislation his previous Government drafted and enacted is preventing him. This really is beneath contempt. I repeat again what he said yesterday. The Government needs evidence that burials were "manifestly inappropriate" before it can intervene. Is he actually trying to say that these burials were in any way manifestly appropriate, and discarding the remains of hundreds of children without a scrap of paper recording the burial location is appropriate? He now seems to be using that as an excuse for inaction, when what he should be doing is moving heaven and earth to find these children and 19 women who disappeared.

Two weeks ago, the Taoiseach told me that Cork City Council should have placed a compulsory purchase order on the land. Councillors on Cork City Council have now twice voted unanimously to CPO the land, mostly recently on Monday of this week. The councillors have been told that they cannot do that because the council does not have capital. The Taoiseach holds the purse strings. Quite frequently when I ask him an important question he comes back and speaks about how I do not have a monopoly on caring, about his bona fides and about how much he cares.

Respectfully, it does not matter how much the Taoiseach cares unless that is mirrored some way in his actions.

Hear, hear.

Can he please refrain from doing that in his reply today and focus on answering the questions? He is the Taoiseach of this country.

Please.

If he cared about this issue he would act. He could amend the burials Act. He could open the archives. He could negotiate with the developer. He could give money to Cork City Council to secure the land.

I thank the Deputy. I call on the Taoiseach to respond.

Will the Taoiseach do that? His hands are not tied; he is sitting on them. There is a difference.

Hear, hear.

A number of years ago, I met with Maureen Considine and some survivors in Bessborough. Deputy Cairns has often said we should talk to survivors. Their perspective is far different from hers in respect of Bessborough. I refer her to an article in today's Irish Examiner by Maureen Considine in respect of this issue. She established the Cork Survivors and Supporters Alliance, CSSA, in respect of this issue - in terms of the burials in Bessborough. The fundamental issue they wanted was to first of all establish where their babies were buried. Their sense was:

The mothers at the heart of our alliance are being overshadowed by an abstract human rights debate. Any demand for further disturbance of remains without their explicit input and consent is not an act of justice; it is a repetition of the original trauma where an institution exerted control over their children's burial. These mothers have inherent rights to privacy and space to grieve in peace.

The Cork Survivors and Supporters Alliance wanted to find out where the mothers' babies were buried. They were involved in legal submissions to a different application and employed experts and so forth. By the way, they do not believe that the current area of lands, which is the subject matter of the current An Bord Pleanála recommendation, is where the babies are buried. That is following their work with the experts they availed of. There are different perspectives from different survivors, which Deputy Cairns has ignored in all of her presentations. I also refer the Deputy to an article by Ann O'Gorman, based in Limerick, who lost her baby when it died 20 minutes after birth. The Deputy should read that article, which was in the Irish Independent some time ago. The point is Deputy Cairns has an extraordinary habit of distorting things that I say and conflating them. We are talking about 60 acres here. The planning permission for housing is not for the entirety of the 60 acres. It is for a part of it. There are two other lots of land. There are State services on the land. One hundred people are working in different services in Bessborough. There is childcare there, and so forth. It has been an active area of human activity for a long time-----

I thank the Taoiseach. I call Deputy Cairns.

-----long after the home closed. I know a lot about it because I have been around a long time in that area. I live nearby.

The time is up. I thank the Taoiseach. I call Deputy Cairns.

I will come back in a minute.

At the end of the day, there are a few things that we know and a few things that we do not know. We know the commission of investigation found that it is highly likely there are babies buried on the grounds. We do not know why it made that recommendation. Why? Because the archives are sealed. The Taoiseach took exception to that word yesterday. They are closed. He can call it whatever he wants. That is why we do not know why the commission made that recommendation. We know that archaeologists walked the site. We do not know what they said or recommended because the archive is sealed. We know that there was no ground-penetrating radar used. As far as we know, there were no soil samples and no test excavations. We do not know why. We know that we have this information for Tuam and for Sean Ross Abbey. We do not have it for Bessborough. We do not know why. The Taoiseach's whole argument amounts to "We simply don't have enough information to meet the threshold for excavation and examination." Why do we not? It is by design.

I thank Deputy Cairns. I call on the Taoiseach to respond.

It is very clearly by design that we do not have this information. I take it from the Taoiseach's reply that his answer to my questions was "No", so I will ask him this: will he simply release the archaeological report?

The Taoiseach will respond now.

Deputy Cairns has attacked the Institutional Burials Act. She implied it was imposed by this Government. It actually was agreed by the entire Dáil.

Not by me.

By the entire Dáil, including Deputy Cairns's party.

I put forward amendments at every Stage.

Respectfully, it works both ways.

Let us park that for a moment.

The Taoiseach can check the record.

It was agreed. When I spoke to Deputy Bacik yesterday, we had a constructive engagement and she asked certain things. Deputy Cairns cannot draw conclusions from yesterday in terms of what the Government's position on this ultimately will be because we said we would reflect on it. That is what I said yesterday and that is what I intend to do. We need to be mindful of all survivors. I think Deputy Cairns has been too dismissive of those I have quoted this morning. I met with them three or four years ago. I was very taken by what they said. They have come to the view that they wanted a proper memorial. They felt their children were within those grounds. By the way, they believe there was a burial ground there and that burials were not ad hoc, scattered all over the 60 acres.

It is the apartments-----

I am sorry, Deputy.

There is a very telling phrase in the article.

The Taoiseach's time is up.

If I could, I will just finish on this very sensitive issue. Their point is that there was not a blade of grass disturbed on that site.

It may be, but we are out of time. I call Deputy Bacik.

The way that site was organised, there would have been a burial ground. I accept the point that we have not located it, but there would have been a burial ground there.

I call Deputy Bacik.

That is the issue. It is not where they-----