I have apologies from Deputies Joanna Byrne and Brian Brennan.

Today's meeting has been convened with representatives from the Gaelic Players Association, GPA, to discuss the integration of the Ladies Gaelic Football Association and the Camogie Association with the Gaelic Athletic Association. GAA representatives were invited to this meeting but, unfortunately, were not able to attend.

I welcome the following witnesses as part of the GPA delegation: Mr. Tom Parsons, GPA CEO and former Mayo Gaelic footballer; Ms Gemma Begley, GPA head of equality and player relations and former Tyrone Gaelic footballer; Ms Aisling Maher, GPA co-chair and Dublin camogie player; Mr. Shane O'Donnell, member of the GPA's national executive committee, NEC, and Clare hurler; Dr. Aoife Lane, Galway camogie player and head of the department of sport and health sciences in the Technological University of the Shannon, TUS; and Mr. Conor Meyler, Tyrone Gaelic footballer and TUS PhD candidate.

The format of today's meeting is such that I will invite the witnesses to deliver an opening statement, which is limited to five minutes. I understand this time is to be shared between Mr. Parsons and Mr. Meyler. The statements will then be followed by questions from the members of the committee.

As the witnesses are probably aware, the committee may publish the opening statements on its webpage. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Before we move to today's discussions, I wish to clarify some limitations in relation to parliamentary privilege and the practices of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege in respect of presentations they make to the committee. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse this privilege, and it is my duty as Chair to ensure that this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or any official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I now invite Mr. Parsons to make his opening statement, to be followed by Mr. Meyler.

I thank the Chair and members of the committee for the opportunity to address them. My name is Tom Parsons. Alongside my colleague Ms Gemma Begley, we represent the leadership of the Gaelic Players Association, the collective voice of 4,000 intercounty players and club players across men's and women's Gaelic games. These players represent their clubs and counties with immense pride, passion and commitment, embodying the very best of our national games.

Last Thursday I had the privilege of visiting Leinster House and viewing the original Proclamation of the Irish Republic, a document written over a century ago that spoke with extraordinary vision about equal rights and equal opportunities for all citizens of Ireland. It was ahead of its time. As I stood there, it struck me that today, within Gaelic games, we are being handed our own Proclamation moment, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to deliver on the same promise of equality through our national games.

The integration of the Gaelic games family represents the greatest transformation since the GAA's foundation. It is our opportunity to unite every boy, girl, man and woman under one shared identity, one association that treats every person, every athlete, with equal respect, equal recognition and equal opportunity.

Integration is about so much more than resources. It is not a problem to be solved; it is the greatest opportunity in the history of Gaelic games and, therefore, should be the first strategic priority of our national governing bodies.

The GPA members, the players who give so much of their time, their energy and their love to these games freely, have every right to help shape that future. The GPA knows integration can be done because we have already done it, when the GPA and the Women's GPA came together under the one organisation in 2021 with total equality across representation, opportunity and resources. It was the GPA that brought the integration motion to the respective congresses of the GAA, the LGFA and the Camogie Association.

We believe this is not about obstacles but about possibility. The benefits are undeniable. Integration means stronger governance, smarter investment, greater participation, enhanced player welfare and a united culture that reflects the best of who we are as a nation. There are no losers here, only winners. The players win. The games win. Ireland wins.

Let me be clear: equality cannot wait until 2027. Leadership must begin now. Players are here asking that their voice be central to shaping and designing their future.

At community level, we already see what is possible, with one-club models, shared academies and young boys and girls wearing the same crest. Yet at intercounty level the gap remains too wide in standards and recognition. That must change and it must start changing now.

Integration will not succeed through administration alone. It must be led through purpose, vision and heart. The GPA stands ready not as bystanders but as builders of the future. We believe the visible leadership about the opportunities for integration has been lacking, and we want that to change.

In years to come, I hope people will say that this was the moment our national games finally lived up to our national ideals of equal rights and equal opportunities. People will say integration was driven not by politics but by principle, purpose and pride - when Gaelic games became one family with one charter, one crest and one culture, valuing every boy, girl, man and woman equally. Integration is not just reform; it is a statement of who we are and who we aspire to be.

Today we call on the committee to work closely with the GPA, the democratically elected voice of the players, to ensure that we are not bystanders and that every lever of Government is used to make integration in Gaelic games a reality at this defining moment in the history of our games.

Thank you, Mr. Parsons. Sorry, Ms Begley - I had the wrong information here. We now proceed to questions and answers with members. Members have seven minutes, if that is all right. We have a significant vote in the Dáil coming up in a while. There will probably be only one round. First is Deputy 'Chap' Cleere

I welcome each and every one of the witnesses. I am biased in the sense that I am born and bred GAA out and out. I was also a member of the GPA many years ago. You might not think it to look at me now, but I was at one stage, and I have been very fortunate to represent my club and my county at every single level. I am also a father of four daughters, four girls who are passionate camogie people, and have been involved in Carlow camogie and Kilkenny camogie down through the years at different levels. I therefore see at first hand the impact this potentially will have for players of all levels and all grades right around the country.

The integration of the three organisations is something the Government and I personally are hugely supportive of. The difference this could potentially make to players right around the country is seismic. The witnesses all know that it will be complex and challenging, that there will be nuances and that it will not be a one-size-fits-all approach. However, I think the overwhelming majority of people in this country are of the view that the LGFA, the Camogie Association and the GAA would be much better, as a brand, as one. We had the Minister, Patrick O'Donovan, in earlier today speaking on different matters, and he has outlined his commitment to the GPA first and foremost. What I mean by that is that players should absolutely not be out of pocket for going to play. I will never make any apology for saying that. I have seen players up close and personal. Their commitment, work and effort are absolutely beyond anything I have ever seen before.

A few bob for mileage or covering costs or food is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things in terms of the enjoyment and support at the elite level but also as we work our way down the rungs to the under-sixes, under-eights and under-tens in every club around the country.

There is a specific measure in the programme for Government to increase participation in sport, particularly among females. This integration process is going to be key to getting those figures up. It is not going to happen on 1 January 2027. We are not going to flick a switch and that is it, it will be done. Everyone talks about the 3 Fs, that is, fixture, finance and facilities. However, on fixtures, for example in Carlow this weekend, the club senior camogie final was actually held in Dr. Cullen Park again, and it was absolutely fantastic to have it in the county ground. The brilliant Myshall team, which had won 25 senior camogie championships in a row, was overthrown by Mount Leinster Rangers, which was iconic for them. For a team to get to play in its county ground should be non-negotiable, but members had to fight to get that.

Last weekend in Kilkenny, for the first time ever, we had a double header with the intermediate and senior county finals taking place in Nowlan Park, our county ground. For this to happen is a no-brainer, but it has actually taken the process this long to get to that situation where we have a dedicated day for our county championships in our county ground. That needs to be replicated across the country. It cannot happen in one go. There is not going to be a lightbulb moment when everything happens. The role that the GPA has and the contribution it can make to that integration is absolutely massive. It can have its voice heard. The Chair outlined earlier that we invited the GAA, the LGFA and the Camogie Association and unfortunately, they could not make it, but the GPA showed up. That is really important, and that tells me everything I need to know in terms of its seriousness about the integration process as an organisation.

Before I get to my question, the final comment I will make relates to facilities, which were mentioned. Record money will be available next year for sports capital grants, and I encourage every club throughout the country to apply to upgrade their facilities and infrastructure. It is really important that we have dedicated female dressing rooms and access for those who have different requirements. There is going to be a huge pot of money available. The last round was €250 million and 3,000 clubs benefited. I encourage the GPA to encourage its members to make sure their clubs are future-proofed, because the funding is going to be there, but they have to apply for it.

The goal of one club, one county, one province, one congress and one association is within touching distance. When it is achieved, which it will be, it will be a momentous occasion. I want to make sure that as an organisation, the GPA’s voice is heard in this. I acknowledge the brilliant report it has done. It is really strong. There is great engagement in terms of the pre-information we got here. I thank our witnesses for everything they have done so far. Do they feel their voices are being heard in terms of the integration process?

I thank the Deputy. I acknowledge and thank the Government for the recent budget, particularly the Ministers, Deputies O'Donovan and McConologue, for the investment in sport and the GAA, and in particular, the investment in players who give so much of their time and commitment. That funding will go equally to male and female athletes, which is very symbolic of where equality stands in the eyes of the Government. It is important to recognise that.

The future of governance of sport needs athletes to be there to represent. I am a member of the GAA central council. We can bring one motion to congress, but I am one athlete on a council of 60. I am the most vocal person because it affects club and county players. We desperately need more athletes, young people who have lived experience, involved in governance. We have asked the governing bodies and the integration committee to make sure that in an integrated body there is a far stronger representative voice of players.

We have had two formal engagements with the integration committee. We believe that is not enough, and we have written submissions. However, we are absolutely committed to the integration committee and we are going to be very vocal on the opportunity in the coming months.

The negative soundbites of the problems and the challenges is something we want to address, because we do not see that; we see opportunity. We believe it is not one plus one equals two, it is one plus one equals three. There are only benefits for our games and our nation. We fully believe and expect the Government will get behind it. We desperately want to have stronger player representation, and even stronger representation in terms of the need for player associations within government and Sport Ireland as well.

I really appreciate the time the witnesses as a group have given up to come in here today. I am most passionate about female sport and camogie in particular. There must be access to resources such as top-class strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists, sports psychologists, infrastructure and playing facilities. We are discussing the elite level, but resources must be provided the whole way down to grassroots level because players start in their club and go off to achieve whatever but they finish in their club as well. That model has to be supported.

I thank the witnesses for coming in. I echo the comments of my colleague. They have not only provided great entertainment for everybody through their talents, but they have also provided leadership. Their report is excellent. I am wearing red today. It is not just a coincidence. It is serendipitous that I am a Louth-based Senator. We are doing incredibly well. The lads have done well this year, but of course, we have to mention just how incredibly well the ladies have been doing. I congratulate the 2025 Louth senior ladies champions, St. Fechin's, my own local club, and of course the all-Ireland senior ladies football champions as well. We can see that in the smallest county in Ireland, football and camogie are thriving. Getting women onboard is not the problem; it is trying to sell this concept to all the clubs. I hope the women’s organisations do not lose their identities. From the point of view of the GPA, and if the other groups were here they might be asked as well, how is it going to preserve the heritage and very distinct identities of the three organisations that will merge?

If we were to start Gaelic games today in 2025, they would look very different from what they did 130 years ago, when society looked very different in how we treated men and women and sport was a lens that reflected that. As Mr. Parsons alluded to, this is an unbelievable opportunity. I want people to acknowledge the magnitude of, at the grassroots at club level, the opportunities given to a young boy and a young girl are not the same. That ripples right through. That comes into play in work and wider society. Sport has an unbelievable opportunity here to completely change the landscape. Gaelic games are our national sports with more than 1 million members and 4,000 clubs. If we bring these clubs together, we are showing that young boy and girl they are both equally as important. At the moment, the starting point for a young boy and a young girl is different, but then we talk about strength and conditioning, nutrition, facilities, fixtures and access to opportunities and that gap widens.

If we do not give equal opportunity, we do not get equal outcomes. If we look at national level and how well we have done in other sports by giving opportunity from a young age, we have ended up with equal outcomes for many of our girls on a world stage. As a committee and as a Government, members have the power to bring people together. They have an opportunity to look at Gaelic games and ask where we want to be in five, ten or 50 years. Many other sporting organisations have not had that opportunity to pause, reflect and ask if they should restart and do it again. With integration, that is what I see. As Mr. Parsons stated, it is an unbelievable opportunity if we get it together. Ultimately if we have the right people with the right mindset and vision, the policy and strategy at club level is the easy part. My club, St. Enda's, has been one-code club for years. All it took was somebody brave enough to stand and say, "Let us get this done". However we have to do it, let us get this done. Very quickly, things happen.

We have done some work on women in Gaelic games. We received 600 responses. Mr. Meyler is quite right. One of the things coming out strongly is their fears around integration.

The work he has done in a review of other mergers shows that is what has happened. Women have been lost, disenfranchised and probably put over there into the women's part of the organisation. There are two things that I would strongly call for - that if they are together, it is not hurling, camogie, ladies' football and football, it is possibly hurling and camogie, so that it is not segregated by gender but sport.

The second point that is really important is that there would be a women in Gaelic games strategy that protects the legacy of the two organisations, but also looks at women not just as people who play ladies football or camogie. I am a woman who has been involved in Gaelic games, as has Senator Ní Chuilinn, and she heard the same. That is something very proactive that I have not seen in many sporting federations, about what it would look like in terms of protecting the legacy of women and also increasing the representation of women. That is very poor in the GAA anyway. The addition of ladies' football and camogie will improve it, but there is a shrinking number of women at the top. Women are on the board because of quotas but we disappear when you go down to sub-committees and county boards. It is very important that we have a dedicated plan for how we protect and safeguard the future of women in this new organisation.

I could not agree more. UK research released yesterday showed that young girls and women who played a sport after school had a much greater chance of entering careers at a higher level and also reaching board level. There is a great correlation there between the two of those. How can this merger improve the participation pathway for girls and women into Gaelic games?

It is a legacy piece. We have done work with young girls and boys who play Gaelic games. At a very small level, girls do not practice as much on their own. They do not play as much in their club or school. We are having all these slippages where girls are not getting as many opportunities to play Gaelic games, which means that it is not surprising that they might not have the skill level, commitment or fitness to stay involved. The integration piece will maybe give us a stronger quality check. Perhaps we need to do more with the girls because they do not play at home. They do not bring a hurl around with them as easily as boys do. There is finally an opportunity for Gaelic games to put that lens on it itself. It is probably easy to let it go when it is in three separate buckets, but I can check it if they are in a club and I am responsible for every young boy and girl. Hopefully, through a bespoke strategy like the one I talked about, I can intervene and do more with the girls because they do not do the same compensatory activity in their own time.

There is not a lot of time but I am really excited about this merger. Hopefully, it will have the knock-on effect of nurturing and keeping young girls in sport. I have a daughter who played hockey. It is really hard once they hit 14 or 15 to try to keep them in a sport. That is what this needs to focus on. I wish those involved the best of luck. I hope to see no more young players changing in car parks or anything along those lines, and that they have the exact same as the gentlemen.

I thank all the witnesses for coming in today. We have been looking forward to having them in. It is fair to say that they are preaching to the converted at this committee. Everybody gets the challenges but it is really important that we point out the opportunity today as well because this is a blank sheet of paper to design Gaelic games in a way that they could not have been designed when the GAA was first set up. I would like to get into the detail a bit more. When was Mr. Parsons's last interaction with the steering group?

About three to four weeks ago.

Brilliant. At that meeting was it a case of presenting research or ideas? What was the nature of the meeting?

It was an update on where the integration is at. The fact that we presented the motion to the congresses is ultimately what kick-started this process. We would like to be stronger stakeholders in the process so it was really to reinforce that message and also the lessons learned over the summer with the player's voice and the skorts campaign. That was an example of when the players' voice is not heard in governing bodies that the players, unfortunately, needed to exercise that voice very publicly. It was an opportunity to look at the lessons.

To date, the GPA on the men's side, which started in 1999, has a stronger representative presence in the GAA. Before we merge, the WGPA does not have that representative presence in the current structures. It just goes to show that players cannot be bystanders and need to form part of the decisions for our games.

That is great. It leads onto my next question. Mr. Parsons mentioned the athlete's voice and how important it is. I have called for an athlete representative to be on every single board of every single NGB, not just in the GAA. The player's voice is under-represented at governance level. It is very important and I will be following up on it with the various NGBs.

Mr. Parsons is one of 60 people who have a voice within the GAA structures. Could Ms Begley and Ms Maher say whether that voice is something that is still missing on the women's side or is there an avenue for that voice?

It is definitely an avenue that could be further explored. I do not feel that we have exploited the opportunities to have the female athlete's voice in the governing structures in camogie anyway, and similarly in the LGFA. Mr. Parsons alluded earlier to what we have seen happen when players' voices are not considered. Unfortunately, in camogie, if you look at our history in recent years, the points when camogie is highlighted in the media and receives attention is for the wrong reasons when players are pushed to the point of feeling like they are not heard or listened to and then we end up seeing negative coverage of stories such as the skorts controversy earlier this year. For me, this presents a huge opportunity to fix that problem and to integrate the player's voice in governance.

One of the aspects of integration that I am really excited about as a player is whether we can use this as an opportunity to have players' voices better integrated into governance from the beginning and to create a structure where the player perspective is heard and we do not get to the point of having these big public issues that are detracting from the sport, which is obviously the most important part.

I am conscious that Mr. Meyler and Dr. Lane have literally written the book on this - or they are writing the book and doing the PhD study on integration in Gaelic games. Could I ask them about the detail at county board level? We get the big headline stuff around finances, facilities and funding, but when we look at every single club feeding into a county board and the split of three different county boards for each of the organisations, it is an enormous potential headache. Have they looked at how that might be addressed so that there would be a one-county board model similar to a one-club model?

I do not underestimate the complexity of Gaelic games. We have done case studies, in particular for the policy brief, along with Dr. Lane and Dr. Katie Liston, looking at the complexity of Gaelic games. The Gaelic games scenario is so complex because we have so many clubs, county boards, provincial level and national level. We are integrating three separate autonomous bodies, whereas in most cases in the research we looked at - the case study on Golf Ireland, Cricket Australia, New Zealand Golf, and the UK mergers during the 1980s and 1990s and the early 2000s - government pressure was put on to form these organisations. As Dr. Lane alluded to, it did not always end well for women. The women's organisations were essentially forced into it because the rug was pulled financially. We must be careful, in particular at county board level and club level.

The one-club model is really good. I do not know if a review has yet been done on county boards. Dr. Lane has done some really good work that she might speak to on the one-club model, how it works and the fact that we have a model there that we have looked at. In terms of a one-county structure, there is nothing in the literature that we have looked at to say-----

Was it in the update from the steering group a few years ago? Do Mr. Parsons or Ms Begley know? No. I refer to the county board stuff.

There was a release earlier this week about a directive to county boards to set up a group. We did it in Galway too.

Was there a guideline for how it would work?

No. We did it in Galway. I chaired a group. We had great intent but we had nothing to work towards, which meant we were completely stuck on the governance model straight away because we had no guide. That stopped it before it started. We did a lot of work on clubs because we felt that was a space we were comfortable in, but until or unless there are guidelines on what it should look like, exactly as Senator Ní Chuilinn says, it is very hard for counties to go into a nebulous space when they are all very busy and under pressure and they are being asked to create a structure when they have no knowledge of what it looks like.

I just have one more question in this round. It relates to the fact that we are losing two formidable women from leadership in Irish sport with the news that Helen O'Rourke and Sinéad McNulty are stepping away from the LGFA and the Camogie Association.

Obviously, that leaves two voids or vacancies on the steering group. All things being equal, and if it was something that was allowed or permissible, if that is the right word, would the Gaelic Players Association, GPA, or members of the playing community be open to sitting on the steering group? It is a yes-no answer really.

Yes, and we would expect that the chairperson of the integration steering committee would ensure that there were equal voices on that committee. We do not know that, but I would expect that would be the outcome. We would welcome an invitation to participate in the design of the future of our games and we did vocalise that with the governing bodies three weeks ago.

I thank the witnesses for their work and, indeed, their testimonies today. I was struck by Dr. Lane making the point that the reason there was greater female representation on governing bodies was because they did it or forced it. The Government has done it. As politicians, we are obviously reluctant to interfere in the internal workings of any organisation. That is a matter for the organisation. However, the one place that the Government can take action is with regard to funding and funding requirements. In many ways, the reforms that happened in the governing bodies across various codes were tied to funding. In fairness, the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, was very strong around that.

There is obviously increased pressure on the capital side when capital funding is allocated. As Deputy Cleere mentioned, we are going to see even more money put into capital over the next few years under the sports capital scheme that will be announced next year and the next phase of the large-scale sporting infrastructure fund in 2027. My first question is around that. Are there particular measures the witnesses would like to see to ensure equal participation tied to those funding requirements, not just for players, but perhaps at management level? While we encourage women's participation in sport, it is also important that women take leadership positions within local organisations. I would be interested to hear the witnesses' views on that.

In general, the key point, and it is something we all believe in, is that sport is not seen any more as just something enjoyable and for people to do. It is vital for community building. It is critical for physical and, increasingly, mental health. That is where we see this happening. For me, as I am sure it is for the witnesses, the dream has to be for every young person, regardless of whether they are male or female or whatever their sexual orientation or racial or ethnic background, to have access to facilities within their communities. My question is obviously related to the funding decision. What more can we as a Government and policymakers do to try to ensure that would happen?

That is a big one for the witnesses.

In terms of the policies that the Government has put in place around gender quotas and linking funding to participants in both codes, and while I do not mean to underestimate policy and the terms and conditions applied to funding, but it is a question of using every lever the Oireachtas has to keep it on the table. It is also about visibility by the Government and leadership in having these committees to consult. This is a process of change management as well. One of my great mentors in business said that, for the best change management, you need to overcommunicate and overcollaborate. The Government can play a role in ensuring that happens, applying key performance indicators, KPIs, linked to funding and demonstrating that there is going to be equal access under the submissions. However, are the leadership and the application process showing equal leadership as well? I would like to compliment what the Government has done to date and I do not underestimate policymakers' impact. Any lever they have to influence change will be greatly appreciated.

There is a real opportunity here around that accountability piece in how good of a job we are doing in that allocation of capital funding. For example, in higher education, we have something called Athena Swan, which is like a reflection; it is an audit. I would love to see that in sport because gender inequality is systemic in sport. What we sometimes get is a proportion of men and women who play in a club, but are we getting the detail on the coaches, leadership, volunteers, the parents who are engaged, who is lining the pitches, the proportion in the nurseries, how many boys and girls are playing at ages four, five and six and who is getting the school visits? Therefore, we would probably love that level of accountability and of challenging clubs and counties to really self-reflect on how they do gender. Deputy Cleere picked up on lots of little things. Loads of people are doing really good small things. It would just be amazing to have the collective.

I am familiar with Athena Swan. During its introduction, it was not universally popular either, as Dr. Lane will appreciate.

No.

What I am coming to is that the levers the Government has are around the funding side. However, if we do look at tying it, particularly on the capital side when we have the next round of sports capital and large-scale sporting infrastructure fund, would Dr. Lane favour it being an Athena Swan model-----

I would favour-----

-----or specifically tied to, or additional points being allocated to, the decisions being made?

Definitely a deeper reflection because a lot of the time, it is about saying this is the number of girls and boys we have, but that is a very one-dimensional aspect of what we all know clubs and counties are like. There are several aspects to it. If there was an opportunity to, first, have a deeper reflection and, second, have accountability, that would be fantastic.

From our experience in terms of funding from Government, when we integrated our bodies, the funding disparity between men and women was significant. It was €900,000 for female athletes and €3 million for male athletes. It was after the fact - after we integrated and released the state of play report and released our governance structures, which show 50:50 leadership - that the Minister of State at the time, Deputy Jack Chambers, equalised funding and recognised and rewarded that. That was symbolic to show our members that when we do show leadership and values and have the right behaviours, the Government is going to be right behind them. I can only suspect that when the bodies integrate and do it well and sell it, and show a pathway and strategy to equal representation, female coaches and everything Dr. Lane said, the Government will come in and really show the recognition in terms of funding.

There are a lot of very good case studies around the country, but it is not universal.

An issue for me is the use of language. We use the word "equality". At the moment, we are at the stage where we still need equity. I still feel like we are behind, and we need equity before we get to equality. If we look at other countries and other sporting organisations, they went through these phases in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and early noughties. Therefore, it is for us to catch up. If we look at how sport was formed and the history of sport, it was that male preserve. However, I still think there is a lingering idea in society of where and how we value women. This to me is the equity piece where we have to invest and overinvest. We have seen situations, such as women's football in the UK, where the rise in it was due to equity of investment. We can look at the rise of the Australian Football League, AFL, model as well. There is not enough green grass for young girls to run around now in Australia. That model did not even exist ten years ago. If we put the money in, hold people accountable for it and have the steps and the process in place, then we can see changes happen pretty quickly.

I thank all the witnesses for being here. Their opening comments in particular were incredibly inspiring and positive. I really welcome how they are framing the integration as an opportunity. Obviously, they have led the way in doing that themselves, which is really clear. They have touched on some of the questions I had around gender, so I will not go any further into that.

Ms Maher mentioned briefly the skorts controversy earlier this year. I commend her and her team, and Kilkenny as well, on the action they took and, ultimately, I acknowledge the response from the Camogie Association. Rather than reliving it, I want to ask what the learnings are from it, particularly facing into integration. Obviously, the voice of the player became the central part of that discussion, but it took quite a while to get there. What can we learn from that?

The biggest learning from it is probably the fact that it was not an issue that just cropped up overnight. It was not just camogie players waking up one morning and saying that, actually, we have changed our minds and we do not want to wear this uniform any more. This is a problem that has not been coming up for years, but for decades, with female players not having a voice in their uniforms and what they wear.

It is symbolic of a bigger systemic issue where athletes, particularly on the female side, are told what to do, where to go, what they will get and how to behave. What we have learned is to integrate the players' perspective earlier in the process and to have a clear pathway for having their voice and input heard. This will help to prevent situations arising where we have protests, games being abandoned and the media speculation we ended up having about sports. It was fantastic to get the support at the time from a number of people in this room, including Senator Ní Chuillin who was very vocal on the issue. We really appreciated a lot of the backing and support we got from the Government. We do not want to get to that point again, however, so that is very important for me.

One of the other issues of interest to me in the broader sporting arena is trans participation, which has become a very volatile topic in the US. I know the GAA and the GPA have been very positive and inclusive in everything they do. What does that integration look like for LGBTQI+ players and, in particular, the question of trans participation in sports? When I am canvassing I am sometimes horrified to hear people say they do not want their little girl getting beaten up on the sports pitch by a boy. There is a lot of misinformation out there and it is really problematic for our young trans community. I am keen to hear what the witnesses' thoughts are on this.

The Deputy is right that it is about the balance between inclusion and safety. In the GPA we have a number of networks within our membership, including a really active LGBTQI+ network. We want to do a lot more in this area. Currently, not a single male player has come out and identified as being LGBTQI+, which is not right because we know all the statistics. We want to create a safe environment where people can bring their whole selves to the game. Equally, it is important from the point of view of social sport that we have men and women and how people identify not being a barrier to being able to participate in sport. That is a non-negotiable. The GPA is looking at what is the guidance from Sport Ireland and where is the crossover between inclusion and safety, which athletes need.

When I say I am horrified, it is not because I think there is a safety issue. Rather, I am horrified that there is misinformation that parents think there is a safety issue. Does Mr. Parsons think there is a safety issue?

I do not have a personal opinion, or I am not educated enough to know the science behind it for me to credibly say there is a safety issue. I can just say with all my heart that I know how important inclusion is in sport. It is just a non-negotiable. I know there are players and athletes who identify in a certain way and are afraid to bring their whole selves to the game, and that is really sad. Sport should be about total inclusion and being able to bring yourself to the game. We are absolutely committed to that. The Deputy will have seen that much of the work we do in this space around LGBTQI+ is to try to allow athletes to show more vulnerability and leadership. However, athletes are afraid to be the face of this. They just want to be themselves and not to be in the public limelight. Our president, Dónal Óg Cusack, has shown huge leadership for males and we really encourage more athletes to do the same.

Other colleagues have covered some of the topics. When the associations come before the committee in a few weeks' time what should we ask them?

There are three important pillars. I have no doubt that a lot of work is going on behind the scenes. As Mr. Meyler mentioned, there are the huge complexities in terms of the operations. We have got an update from the steering committee that there is going to be one membership, one GAA and one Gaelic family. The motion that the GPA brought, which was on equal investment, equal representation and equal opportunity, will be alive in 2027. We are trusting in the leadership of the governing bodies that they will deliver that.

We want to see more leadership to talk about the opportunities, not the problems or the costs. We want the leadership to say that this is an opportunity for us to be seen as the greatest sporting organisation in the world, where we have volunteerism, and athletes who are respected and are treated equally.

The third one is to be world leaders in athletes having a voice. That is really important. We are young people and young people understand change. Every one of us has been in four or five different jobs already. My father, for example, worked in the Department of agriculture for 30 years. We are so used to change and young people expect change. I think we have diverse voices. When it comes to decisions being made about our games and how we design the governance structures for Gaelic games, I would love to see Shane O'Donnell, Aisling Maher, Gemma Begley and Conor Meyler, who are very articulate, around that table and at congress, bringing motions and designing a future governance and structure that reflect just how progressive our games, people and players are.

Most of the questions I have would not be for the witnesses but, rather, for the associations. However, they have not been able to find their way here thus far, to a big building in the middle of Dublin, and maybe that is the problem. I think it is great that the merger is happening. I am one of those who, wherever there is a problem, will find a way around it. I think the organisation can do that but it is a big juggernaut or big tanker to try to turn. There will be issues and problems despite all the goodwill and all the good work. The witnesses just told us. that there was an update recently. If they are only reporting progress so far, a year away from kick-off date, I do not think it is going to happen as quickly as we would all hope. In the club of which I am a member, here in Dublin, there is not an issue other than no dressing rooms and not enough pitches. It is great that there is an increase in girls' and women's participation but there is a drop-off and the clubhouse and dressing rooms are too small. All of these issues are practical things that need to be overcome. You will have that in Dublin, though. There was a practical response to the wearing of skorts in Dublin, which was to allow players to wear shorts and the clubs would pay the fine. The clubs could not care less. I think the fine was €1 per player who played in shorts. That was a way of dealing with the issue, and well done to everybody who took part in the protest and ended the restriction.

Is there opposition to the changes that will be required and, if so, where is it coming from? Is it from the clubs or from the bureaucracy, and every large organisation has a bureaucracy, or is it just that they are slow to act?

Ms Begley might want to come in on this as well. We do see opposition to making changes now. We do not need to wait until 2027. We have all the data and research, and the resources are there. Even our members would like to see the designing of a female charter commenced. We would like to see steps made in 2026 and not to wait until 2027. That is a blocker for us. We have engaged to discuss minimum standards for female inter-county players and asked that we discuss and design those now. The response has been that integration has to be worked out before that can be talked about.

The Deputy is correct that we should just do the right thing, particularly if there are elements we can do now that close the gap. For young boys and girls and men and women, 2027 might feel around the corner but athletes' sporting career with their club or county is very short, so every 12 months really matters.

To address the Deputy's point, the vast majority of people I talk to can see positives, but there will always be outliers. It is important that we have very strong leadership and people shouting about the opportunities and not the threats.

If I may add to that, I would not say it is opposition; it is probably more a lack of information. People are probably unaware of the opportunity we have spoken about today. I think any opposition comes from a fear about finances, as has been well articulated, on the men's side, and maybe the disparity in resources.

That all comes from a lack of positive communication around this, a lack of information and a failure to paint a picture of the opportunities. That is on the men's side. On the female side, and I am speaking from personal experience here, we went through a merger with the men's GPA in 2020. The same issues are arising. There is a fear of losing control, losing your voice, being consumed and losing your identity. I can only speak to our experience. We went through it. We set out what we had all signed up to. It was a values-led process. We all bought into it and it has been nothing but positive since then. I can say that confidently on the female side but I believe it has been positive for the male players as well. The improvements for the females over the last number of years have been constantly building. I refer to Government funding, increased resources and a stronger voice on things like the skorts campaign. On the men's side, we have had sponsors and programmes come in that want to represent both equally so we are seeing increased sponsorship. There is also greater diversity in our conversations at committee level because you have men and women sitting around the table. There are women advocating on behalf of men. To be honest, I do not know if there is opposition but if there is any, I imagine it comes from a lack of information, which is something that can be easily addressed and overcome.

I do not know why a female charter is needed. There should just be a new charter. It is one of those things. It is about how you use the words. I understand exactly what Ms Begley is saying. The charter should encompass all. When my daughter was in Good Counsel, she decided to set up a football team and the club went against her. It was the female side, the camogie players, who went against her because they thought they might lose out. She went off and played football for another club and camogie for Good Counsel. It happened three years later. Sometimes people are stuck in the mud, although they mean well. It is about trying to help them.

The importance of non-playing members is often not taken into account when we discuss the GAA. Not enough women are non-playing members. In my own club, they are mainly men. Perhaps that is a way to encourage more women who have played before or those who have not to join. Most of them are doing the work in the club anyway. They are just not signed-up members. That might help with some of the blockages that may arise in the future as clubs juggle with the changes that are coming.

The witnesses are very welcome. I apologise; I was in the Chamber for the confidence motion earlier on. In the opening statement, the GPA states that this is a great opportunity. It was also said that this is the greatest sporting organisation in the world. Further down in the statement provided, it is stated that "They will say integration wasn’t driven by politics, but by principle, purpose, and pride" but the association then asks the committee to ensure it is at the table in the ongoing process of integrating the three associations. The association is saying this should not be driven by politics but is asking politicians to get involved in GAA matters, which I do not agree with.

The witnesses will probably know I am a former member of the GAA ard chomhairle. I also sat on the GPA finance committee for two years. I have not had any contact from the GPA since. I actually seconded the memorandum of understanding proposal from an t-uachtarán, John Horan, so I am extremely supportive of the GPA and the work it does as an organisation. However, I do not agree that the GPA should be sitting at the table with the three associations. The three associations represent the membership across the entire country and internationally, whether in female Gaelic football, camogie, GAA, handball or rounders - we have a club at home. We are also involved in Scór and have referees. One weekend in Longford, we had a county final weekend with junior A, B and C games, the intermediate hurling final replay and the senior final. I am talking about all of those players. I am also a member of the GAA and have been since I was six years of age. I have served in every single role in the organisation at local level. I just stepped away from my own club because I was elected as a TD but I am still on the executive. I had been in different roles for over 30 years as a volunteer. In my view, every member is equal within the association. The GPA does not seem to think so because it has come in here and asked us to put it at the table when it represents 0.66% of the entire membership of the organisation.

Perhaps we could give the witnesses a chance to answer that question.

When speaking to the NGBs, members or anybody else who asks us publicly or in any other forum, what we are asking for is not to have a seat at the table but to be a part in the process. I am a member of central council as well. I am a GAA member. I am very vocal. The vast majority of issues that are brought to central council impact players. I do not just represent 4,000 inter-county players. Members like Shane O'Donnell here, who won his county title last week, are also club players. Quite often, they are captains of their clubs and great volunteers.

All members of the association, including me and Deputy Ó Snodaigh, are equal members. The three associations are in discussions. Mary McAleese was appointed to work with the three associations. Her diary is the reason we have not managed to find a date to get the three associations in here rather than any issue with the associations themselves. I just wished to make that clear. Every member is equal.

I will clarify that point later.

Every member is equal. I support the GPA. I was supportive of the extra funding for the association and I served with it for two years. However, I do not believe the process should be skewed towards a certain percentage of the membership of the organisation. The GAA is built on volunteerism and amateurism. If that changes, we will destroy the association. We want to expand. We spoke with the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, at the previous meeting of this committee about growing and improving hurling in the weaker counties. I come from Longford, which is a weak hurling county but we had a fantastic replay of the hurling final last Saturday evening. It was an exhibition of hurling. We want to grow and expand that but we need equality. Equality was referred to in the statement and has been mentioned by everybody here. However, I do not believe the GPA is seeking equality in asking the committee to put pressure on to ensure its voice is heard above those of the whole association. That is my view.

We are certainly not asking for that. We are thankful to have been invited before the committee and asked what we would like to see. We would like to collaborate more and to engage in the design process. As with any change, every member of the association has the right to engage and contribute. It is a very positive thing that our members and our players, who give up so much time, want to help to design the association for good. We are thinking beyond the inter-county game. When the motion to integrate the three associations went to congress, those who brought that motion, including Ms Maher and Mr. O'Donnell, talked about the clubs, the grassroots boys and girls and the idea of one club. We are not a very small percentage. To look at what we stand for publicly, we have a partnership in mental health through which we have reached 10,000 kids across the country with programmes on mental health delivered by inter-county players. With respect, I do not know why the Deputy is being critical of players, young people who are trying to progress Gaelic games for the better. I am a GAA man and always have been and I firmly believe-----

I just want to cut in. I have not been critical. It is not fair to say I was critical. What I have said is that all of us are equal as members of the association and all of our opinions are equal. That is the way it should be.

The clock is running down. Will Deputy Carrigy let Mr. Parsons answer?

We should really celebrate the fact young people want to get involved in governance and want to progress our games. This is really positive.

When we look at the books on the history of Gaelic games, and when people look back, they will look at this as a very defining moment. We all work in organisations where diversity and equality are really important. I want to compliment everyone here from Mr. Meyler to Dr. Lane, who are investing their time to try to make this happen. I think it is for the betterment of the game. I hope we come across as being humble. We are not better than any other member. We are just a collective voice of players. We can provide great data and have an input. I want to play a positive role, whatever that is. We are not looking for a seat on the integration committee but I would ask people to please engage with us. We would love to engage with the committee on any topic on sport beyond Gaelic games if we can contribute positively. I hope any contributions today will be taken in that spirit of positivity and of moving our games on to be a reflection of how great our country is and how great our national games are.

First, I have been a huge supporter of the GPA since its inception. I was actually hanging around when it was set up. The level of contribution players make to the culture of our country, to sport and to young people is immeasurable and, in many ways, they do not get a fraction of the appreciation due to them. This is not about monetary stuff when it comes to GPA; this is about respect. I have been a supporter all the way through, of Dónal Óg Cusack, Dessie Farrell and all the different people down through the years. I just want to put that on record.

On the integration issue, I come from the best little parish in Ireland, Portroe, made more famous by Liam Sheedy being there. We have a small club, one of the smallest in Tipperary, and we punch way above our weight. We were at senior level at hurling and at a very high level in camogie. There were a lot of other clubs. Times are changing. We are now an intermediate club and this year we were lucky to remain so. My wife is from Kerry. She is from Waterville, Mick O’Dwyer’s country. We have had a ladies football team for about the past six years – I had better get it right because she set it up with colleagues. As a small club, we have the lot. There are massive clubs either side of us that do not have ladies football but we have. Therefore, my daughter is playing Gaelic football and she is playing camogie. She is playing a county final against Lorrha at 11 a.m. on Saturday. That is more important than the all-Ireland that we won last summer. There are two All-Irelands in our house, by the way – we did the double. We are splitting the jersey and putting it up inside the door.

My point is that as a small club we are a classic example of how we can do the integration. Everyone knows everyone and there is such a crossover, that we can do it. There will be issues. Some of the girls come to play Gaelic football from the bigger clubs, from Kiladangan or Burgess, which do not have ladies football. They play camogie against our girls but they play Gaelic football with them. The question is how you can be a member of both clubs and how that all works out. There are the three Fs, which I will not go into again. I often speak of political influence and my daughter could be a trade union leader because any time the boys - she calls them the lads - get their kits or extra stuff, she demands to know why the girls are not getting it. Generally, that ends up with me and a few others paying for it but we get there.

I am totally sold on this project because it is more than just coming together but it is also a change of ethos in a good way. I love the ethos of the GAA and the amateur nature of it, but this is also about equality and although being amateur sports, everybody being treated equally with equal access to facilities, to pitches and everything else. There needs to be a bottom-up and top-down approach, coming together at the one time.

I am very conscious of Shane and Aisling as being the two player representatives here. From their perspective, and that of the people they are talking to, what do the clubs need to do to prepare for this integration?

I will allude to what Tom Parsons alluded to earlier about change management at the core being an exercise in communication. We joined as one club in 2021. It was just through the determination and leadership of a number of key individuals who took hold of that initiative and pushed it through by bringing stakeholders together. Obviously there were some dissenting voices but it overwhelmingly took a couple of people to show leadership and to bring those different groups together, have the stakeholders in the room and hear everyone’s voice on the potential concerns but also the potential opportunities which we spend some time talking about. Looking back on that, I am proud of being able to say my club is a one club. That is an opportunity that we have not discussed much today. We can bring our organisation to something that we can all be more proud of. It is something we have seen at club level. It is an exercise in having stakeholders in the room who have something to contribute positively and to air the concerns some people might have - obviously, there will be concerns - and come to something we can agree on moving forward.

I would largely echo what Shane said. Communication is hugely important here. Change is slow and change in the GAA in particular is probably slow. The more clarity and transparency there is around the integration process, the more communication there is with clubs on how this will happen and what the path forward will be and will it afford time for the people involved to get their heads around that change and think about what it will look like on a practical level for each club individually. My fear with the 2027 deadline is that there has not been enough communication with everybody on the ground, not just inter-county players but all members of all GAA clubs. The more they are communicated with as to what will be expected and what it will look like will give them time and space to see how that will fit and where the potential issues might be.

Perfect. That leads me into my question. Is 2027 realistic? We are all politicians here, to be fair, but the politics of the GAA is a different level. I jest but we all know what we are talking about. Is 2027 doable? What could be achieved by that time?

What we have seen in the research is the different phases of the merger – the pre-merger, the transition phase and post merger. To me, equality is a commitment to a direction rather than a moment in time.

Good point.

We look at other mergers and cases. I do not know that any organisation in the world is exactly gender equal. How do we define that and how do we determine it when it is too multifactoral and contextual? Howsoever, it is a commitment to the direction in which we want to go. We can look at cases like golf in Ireland. It went through a merger between the GUA and ALGU. They have made a commitment to equality, it is now Golf Ireland, but not every golf club in Ireland is exactly gender equal. It is going to be the same case in Gaelic games. If we make the commitment to say this is the direction in which we want to go and we want to give every young boy and young girl the opportunity to play. I am a club player who has played for my club for 20-plus years. It is where I started and where I will finish. The reality is as a male I have enjoyed a privilege that Tom, Shane and I have had over the likes of Aisling, Gemma and Aoife here. The opportunity has not been equal. It is bi-directional in the sense that the club impacts the county and the county impacts the national and what I am asking for here today is even above that. The effect will come top-down and will also go bottom-up.

That is why I said that earlier. Sorry to interrupt; I do not want to break my own rules. What was said earlier was that this is not a moment in time where this is all going to happen. I suppose it is a valid point. It is probably the most important point that was made here, if you do not mind my saying so, and I compliment you on that. It is about signing off on a direction that everyone is going to go in. It will take decades of investment to get to the point where everything is more or less on that level.

We probably will get a very good blueprint but the bit will be how this happens. With respect to the inter-county players, they can be transformational in the how bit because of their position as role models. We will get a lovely blueprint but it is the aftermath and the delivery.

We will have a quick second round of one-minute questions and one-minute answers because we have private business to do and we have already had one session. We cannot let the Government fall down in its confidence motion either. We have a guest, Deputy Ó Cearúil, who I will include in this round and then the other members can come in again.

I thank Mr. Parsons for coming in. We had reason to have discussions prior to the budget and there was some good news there. In regard to amalgamation, I appreciate the point that it is not a moment in time. As the Chair said, an important point is what the success metrics are over time. What, to the GPA, would suggest this is being successful? From the micro level, I know that in clubs in Kildare, for example, there are always issues around playing pitches, training pitches and so on. How can we track that to say it is working? It does not have to be at one moment in time. There could be a lead-up to 2027 or it could be in 2027 and thereafter. How can we look at it and say it is working or, on the flipside, that it is not working and we need to go back to the drawing table?

One simple metric would be how well women are represented across Gaelic games. What is it now and what is it every year? Are we incrementally seeing more women in coaching, in leadership, in volunteering and in refereeing? For me, that would be a sign of gender equality, which is the stated goal of the new GAA.

That is obviously across the game, not just in the ladies’ game.

Exactly.

Would the GPA include an increase in the number of female players as well?

Yes, with less dropout.

That answers my question. I thank Dr. Lane.

Dr. Lane and Mr. Meyler have summed it up perfectly. It is not just about equality of opportunity but equality of outcome as well. To hear Mr. Meyler, as a young man, speak so eloquently about the privileges he has had, and I have had, as a male GAA person gives me huge pride. It lets me know, as a father of four girls, that my daughters can grow up in an environment where they will get equal opportunities to the boys in their class. For those like Aisling Maher and Shane O’Donnell, who are competing at the highest level, they are role models for every town and village, and every young player out there. I am a huge supporter of what is done by the members of the GPA. To me, they are representative of every single boy and girl in the country, every single player and the 1 million members that we have. They are the elite and the ultimate. Their words matter, what they do matters, their contribution to this whole process matters, and it matters more than many people might realise. They should keep doing what they are doing. Keep the fight up.

I do not have any further questions. For me, the prioritisation of female participation is huge. I have been selfish as a man growing up. As a young lad growing up, I never really thought that way. When my first girl was born, that was one thing, but when I got to the fourth, I knew I was in trouble, so I have completely changed my track on that. Keep that to the centre of everything the GPA does. That is for all members, but particularly females. Well done.

I am a young man who does not have a family. I do not want it to get to a case where it is just fathers or big brothers who, all of a sudden, realise there is an inequality. There is an education piece that we need to do around sport, and I have spoken to Senator Ní Chuilinn about this. The knock-on effect is huge because the reality in Gaelic games is that the majority of people taking leadership decisions, across all associations, county boards and clubs, are men, who are still making decisions on behalf of women. That is something we need to move on. Dr. Lane spoke about networks like Athena Swan and Title IX in the US. We have to bring in policy and strategy, which will shift the systemic and structural change, and then we get the cultural change as a byproduct of that. That is the agency piece. As an individuals, I can be a male ally, but the activism is actually getting something done about it. Yes, there is a piece as the individual. I have to take notice of how I speak and interact with Dr. Lane, Ms Begley and Ms Maher, but the privilege I have had is that sport has elevated me and given me opportunities that they potentially did not have. That is the equality of opportunity that I want for every young boy and girl because how we see one another in society shifts and changes as we grow older.

I think this is the first time male allyship has come up and it is so important. With the greatest of respect, while I understand where different people are coming from, you should not need to have daughters to see the need for equality.

I stand by my comments around leadership and the athlete voice. It is not just me saying that the GPA should have a voice. It is international best practice in sports governance. It is why the OFI has set up an athletes’ commission and why the Federation of Irish Sport is calling for athlete representation on boards. I can understand Deputy Carrigy’s hesitance around this but I do not think the GPA is getting too big for its boots and I know the witnesses have come here with humility. It is international best practice that we should have an athlete voice at board level because, as Dr. Lane said, athletes are role models as well and volunteers at club level, so they are a lot more than the tiny percentage of intercounty players.

I have a couple of questions. In terms of the One Club model, do we know the figures for how many clubs in Ireland are yet to do it? I think the answer is “No”. In terms of attitudes across the county boards, I know Cork and Galway have been very positive. How is that progressing? Are there other county boards that we know of that would like to progress in that way? Are there county boards that have made themselves known to be hesitant or even militant against the whole thing? Has the lack of communication and transparency hindered the progress of Cork and Galway?

From the Galway perspective, the answer is “Yes”. While the intent was very positive and we wanted to do something, we just did not know what to do because it was a blind mission, as such. The one area we went after was the clubs. We kind of knew what to do with the clubs because there are One Club guidelines. We did profiles of three clubs in Galway: Oranmore, which is a huge club with over 2,000 members; my club Ballinderry, which has about 200; and Claregalway, which is about the same. We ran One Club workshops and tried to be constructive but, quite simply and not for want of effort, we just did not have a blueprint for what we would do around governance. Some counties have done this. Westmeath has representation from the different organisations on the overall executive and Cork has the One Cork sponsorship model, which is working quite well, from what I can see. We tried to do that. As I said, people are doing bits and pieces. Kilkenny contacted me a couple of weeks ago about how we would build a perfect centre of excellence for all four codes in our county and what that would look like. I do not know the answer. There are bits and pieces but there is no overall package.

There has been no audit of county boards to see where the attitudes would lie.

Not as I understand it. We asked in Galway as well.

It is a very good point. As a committee, we could write to the GAA to get that data. If others have similar questions on the One Club model, an audit of county boards and all of that sort of stuff, and if we could get that data prior to eventually getting the GAA and all the other associations before the committee, it would be good.

I thank the witnesses for what has been a very enlightening discussion. On one of the positives, it is not just the GAA family that is facing some of these challenges and this is similar in a lot of other sporting codes. As part of that audit, there are good examples and there are some really innovative clubs. Again, I am talking about the inclusion model because for us, from a policy perspective, that is important.

The witnesses touched on how those who were members of the LGBTI community were involved within sport, which is critical and is a challenge for all sports, and it is similar for those with disabilities or who are neurodivergent. Again, there are some good case studies. It is a critical point.

It comes back to the leadership question that everyone mentioned. When you can see it, you can be it. I have a simple question. When do the witnesses think we will have a female uachtarán Cumann Lúthchleas Gael and what are the barriers, if any, to that happening?

I scratch my head as to whether there are any good candidates. I have often looked to the lady to my right, Dr. Lane. I would like to put on record that maybe one day, she would be a fantastic uachtarán.

This will be on “Reeling in the Years”.

We have female leadership in the co-chairs. Aisling Maher has been brilliant and Cora Staunton also, and we essentially have two presidents of the association. It has been brilliant. I hope it is in the very near future, and I think it will be very positive for Gaelic games.

As the Chair said, our politics are nothing to GAA politics, so we will not try to advise the GPA on that. We wish the witnesses well.

I thank the witnesses. I am sorry that I had to pop out to the Chamber briefly. To pick up on the gender questions, one that has always intrigued me is the use of the term “ladies” rather than “women.” I am not a lady. I do not consider myself a lady. I find it an exclusionary term. It is not that funny. I have studied it in equality studies and, genuinely, we find it hard to say “women” because it puts us on a par with men, and instead the general parlance is “ladies”, “girls” and so on.

Will it continue to be used after integration? Should it be? What is the GPA view on this?

It actually came up at the LGFA congress a couple of years ago. There was a motion and they voted to retain the use of the word "ladies". I will not speculate on what the players' collective voice would be on that because we have never surveyed them on it. In my own view, it would make sense to modernise the terminology in line with the ongoing changes in the association. Again, we cannot speculate with no insight into what is proposed. Hopefully, to the points made by Ms Maher and Mr. O'Donnell, we will have good communication about what is proposed and the reasons behind it, everyone will buy into it and our collective identity as a modern, progressive association will reflect players and members on the ground. From a personal perspective, it is something I would really like to see changed.

Does anybody else have a view?

I would not use the term. It is a women and Gaelic games strategy. Language is important here.

Yes, exactly.

That is a very valid point.

Other sports have not been mentioned yet. I know a lot of other sporting organisations and I am sure many of their player representative associations are looking on with interest because of the huge change that is envisaged in the GAA into the future. Do the witnesses have much contact with other sporting organisations? There are huge changes happening in terms of women's involvement in rugby and soccer. It is now at a different level and some of the clubs are more active than others. Similar processes are happening and I am interested to hear whether the GPA is sharing its experiences with them and vice versa.

That is a good point. We have very strong relationships with the other player associations, particularly rugby and soccer. We have a shared learning partnership in one respect, in terms of what we have done. I am a board member of the European Athletes and Players Association. There was a general assembly in Rome last week attended by nearly all EU member states. Ms Begley spoke about our integration journey. As a player association, we are ahead of the curve for a lot of sport around the world. We are also the envy of a lot of sports because for a lot of professional sports achieving equality is unrealistic given the contracts that are in place. It has become very apparent to us that there is a huge opportunity, with the model that we have, to really be world leaders. The role of player associations and athlete representation around the world is growing. As Senator Ní Chuilinn said, recent policy in Europe states that governance should include athlete representation and that is growing. It is a real live topic and we are very engaged with other player associations.

How long did the two formal interactions with the steering group last? The last interaction was a few weeks ago, I understand. Did it go on for hours or minutes? Who was there? I ask the witnesses to educate us a little on that because we are behind the curve on it.

It is a presentation and it is over the course of an hour, in terms of our feedback. Obviously, I have consistent dialogue with the director general and the president of the GAA in particular. We sit on a body that governs the funding for intercounty players with the other associations. There is ongoing dialogue but not in the realm of looking at the design of this.

Does Mr. Parsons think there should be more frequent meetings?

There is no point in the blueprint being presented in 12 months' time and then stakeholders pointing out that there is only one representative body for the whole organisation, from a players point of view. On the point about overcollaboration, we have a lot of significant thought leadership here that we would like to contribute. Does Ms Begley have anything to add?

The Cathaoirleach asked about the substance of the meetings. The first one in particular was very useful for us in being able to set out our vision for the future of Gaelic games. I think and I hope that positively impacted the committee and it took that on board. The language of the motion that was set out was an integration to provide equal opportunity, investment and recognition for everyone in Gaelic games. To the Deputy's earlier point, it is not just with intercounty players. It is clear from the language of Mr. Meyler, Mr. O'Donnell and Ms Maher that this is about wider Irish society, communities, boys and girls and the amazing role that Gaelic games play in positively impacting who we are as a people. We sold the vision to the associations at the first meeting in particular. That was shortly after the group was formed and had started its work.

I would emphasise that Dr. Lane and I are independent here, in the sense that while we are members of the GPA and Dr. Lane is the former chair of the WGPA, the research is independent. I have been researching this through the technological university with Dr. Lane and Dr. Katie Liston. We have spent the last couple of years looking at gender-based mergers, male allyship, and the sporting landscape on the island and further afield. We have been talking to people a lot smarter than me who have gone through these processes. We had an opportunity to present to the committee over a year ago now. I want to stress how much of this is being underpinned by academia, research and so on.

That is a good point. There is one last thing which we spoke about in relation to our work programme that has nothing to do with integration but as our guests are here, I will raise it. It is on our list but we have so much other stuff to do that it might be some time before we get to it. I refer to an issue that crosses over with the health committee, namely drugs in Ireland. The GPA could play a huge role here. I have gone to a number of meetings in sports clubs, including my own club, where concern is expressed that drugs are everywhere. They are across sporting codes and across the GAA. The days of young people going out for a few pints are basically over. We all know what is going on. They are on various different health regimes but are substituting drugs. Cocaine use, in particular, is off the charts. I would love the committee to explore this some more and to examine whether a cross-association approach could be taken. It would take leaders in each code and some group is going to have to kick it off. Can we start a campaign across codes, beginning with one code, to address this? I have gone to too many talks and seen too many young people affected. It is not changing; if anything, it is getting worse. I will leave that thought with our witnesses, which is separate to this meeting but is something I am hugely passionate about.

The issue of drugs use in sport is coming before the Oireachtas Joint Committee On Drugs Use and as far as I know, an invitation has issued to the GPA. You could come to that meeting, Cathaoirleach, if you like.

Okay. Thanks for that Senator. I will come to that meeting.

I echo that. We spoke to the Minister about the significant funding, for which we are very grateful, that helps players with the costs of competing and about developing an memorandum of understanding around a formal relationship to support some Government policy. We have done campaigns on road safety, for example, that have been hugely effective, as well as on mental health vulnerability, and LGBTQ and inclusion, among other issues. We would absolutely welcome engagement on drugs and I might re-engage with the Cathaoirleach on that.

It would be great and I believe that the Minister and the Department would be 100% with us on this. If we kick it off from this committee, it would be good to do it across the codes. I would like to thank the witnesses for attending today.