Apologies have been received from Senator Shane Curley, who cannot be with us.

Everyone is very welcome. I ask those attending remotely to mute their microphones when not contributing so we do not pick up any background noise or feedback. As usual, I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off entirely.

Members attending remotely are reminded of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. As witnesses are within the precincts of Leinster House, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentations they will make to the committee. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse this privilege. It is my duty as Cathaoirleach to ensure this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if witnesses’ statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is that imperative they comply with any such direction.

Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or entity outside the Houses, or an official of the Houses, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

On the agenda for today's meeting is the implementation of the national youth strategy, entitled Opportunities for Youth: National Strategy for Youth Work and Related Services 2024–2028. On behalf of our committee, I welcome the following officials from the Department of Education and Youth: Ms. Cliodhna O’Neill, assistant secretary, schools, social inclusion and youth division; Mr. Karl Duff, principal officer, youth affairs; Ms Lisa Kavanagh, sector specialist, youth affairs; and Mr. Brian Ó Loinsigh, assistant principal officer, youth affairs.

I invite Ms O’Neill to make the opening statement. She has five minutes. Afterwards we will have questions from members.

I thank the Chair and members for the invitation to discuss the work of youth affairs in the Department of Education and Youth. I am the assistant secretary with responsibility for schools, social inclusion and youth and I am joined by colleagues Mr. Karl Duff, Ms Lisa Kavanagh and Mr. Brian Ó Loinsigh.

The youth affairs unit has responsibility for the legislation, policy development and funding underpinning the delivery of youth services in Ireland. These services deliver high-quality youth work and non-formal developmental opportunities to approximately 450,000 young people aged between ten and 24 across Ireland. The aim is to support young people to develop their personal and social skills to reach their full potential. Approximately 2,000 youth workers and 40,000 volunteers support young people in their youth services and youth clubs nationally. We work closely with the youth functions in the 16 education and training boards, ETBs, which have responsibility for youth work services under legislation.

In 2026, core current funding of €90.1 million will support existing youth services and youth organisations, while also enabling the expansion of both targeted and universal services for young people. This represents an increase of €4.5 million over 2025. A further €4 million in capital funding will be available in 2026. This increase brings the overall core current and capital funding available to €94.1 million. Last week the Department published its NDP capital programme for 2026 to 2030. This includes an allocation of €4 million for youth in each of the years, which will provide scope for more strategic capital in the youth sector over the period.

The national strategy for youth work and related services, Opportunities for Youth, was published in September 2024. It sets out three overarching strategic objectives and 18 actions for delivery between 2025 and 2026. In partnership with the youth sector, a new set of actions will be developed for the period 2027 to 2028. The strategy was informed by extensive consultation with young people and other stakeholders, which is reflected in its scope and ambition, and now in its implementation. Since publication, work on the delivery of the 18 actions has been progressed by the Department and the sector. We acknowledge that there has been delay in the publication of an implementation plan to support the strategy. As the committee is aware the youth affairs function transferred to this Department in May 2025. Considerable work has been done to build on the existing implementation work, and to develop a plan for publication to capture this work. A draft action plan for Opportunities for Youth has been prepared for approval by the Minister, Deputy Naughton. The Department has received significant input already from the sector which is reflected in the draft plan, and further consultation will now happen on the draft plan before it is finalised and published. It is important to note that, in the interim, all of the actions in the plan are still progressing.

The UBU your place your space scheme supports young people who are identified as marginalised, vulnerable, or at risk of not flourishing. The scheme delivers evidence-informed interventions that promote soft skills, confidence, and progression into education, training, or employment. Over €50 million was allocated to the UBU scheme in 2025. Under budget 2025, the Department secured an additional €1.2 million to establish ten new UBU services across the country, increasing the total to 258. Other targeted youth services include the targeted youth employability support initiative, playing a vital role in equipping young people aged between 15 and 24 who are not in education, employment or training with the confidence, soft skills and practical competencies needed to progress into further education, training or employment. The summer holiday meals pilot programme is in line with the Government’s wider commitment to end child poverty. It aimed to provide a hot or substantial meal to young people at risk of not having access to a meal over the summer period. Over 3,200 young people availed of the scheme.

Through the youth services grant scheme, the Department provides funding to 35 national organisations. It funds the effective delivery by these organisations of quality youth services that support young people’s social and personal development. It also funds organisations such as the National Youth Council of Ireland, NYCI, which provides support to the overall work of the sector. The Department provides additional funding to the youth sector to support the delivery of volunteer-led, universal youth work. These include the volunteer activation fund, the youth climate justice fund, Foróige’s Big Brother Big Sister mentoring programme and funding for NYCI’s safeguarding, youth health, youth arts and equality and intercultural programmes. In addition, the Department provides core funding to Gaisce, the President’s Award, and to Léargas to support the implementation of the youth aspect of Erasmus+.

Youth policy will be a prominent feature of the forthcoming Presidency of the Council of the EU. The Department will work in partnership with the National Youth Council and other youth sector stakeholders. Ireland will host the youth conference in September this year, which will see young people from all 27 member states and beyond come to Ireland to discuss matters that affect young people across Europe under the theme of information and constructive dialogue. We welcome the opportunity to discuss the great value that youth work services provide to young people in Ireland, to hear the views of members and answer their questions.

We turn to members' questions. It will be six minutes per member. We may get a second speaking slot.

Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe ar fad as ucht teacht isteach inniu. Tá sé chomh tábhachtach go bhfuilimid ag plé óige sa choiste oideachas agus óige. All of us here know the importance of youth work. I am sure we have all visited our local clubs. I have met many in Kildare South such as InSync and The Hive. I know the fantastic work the workers and young people are doing. I have attended many of the nights for Oíche na hÓige, which was fantastic. The aim of the youth night is to celebrate youth workers and young people. It was stated that it was to intended to address the issue of limited awareness of services and opportunities, but it is clear to me from that night that the issue was not awareness of services, but the availability of services and opportunities. I am hearing first hand from youth workers that they are struggling to keep their doors open, given the increased costs of delivering these services and it is not being matched by funding, for example, the UBU rollout of €120,000 per new service. Where did the Department get that figure from? Why is it still being used or is it still being used? There are plans for additional UBUs to roll out. Will there be any accurate costings on how much it costs to roll out another UBU service? How much does it cost to run and to staff?

Sticking with funding, the figures I see tell us that youth work is getting 1% of the Department's €7.55 billion allocation of the NDP investment plan for 2026 to 2030. Ms O'Neill referred in her opening statement to the importance of youth work and how much we regard our youth work. Does she believe this is sufficient? I do not think it reflects the importance. Stopfaidh mé ansin.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teacht as ucht na ceiste sin. I will start with the Deputy's last question and then hand over to colleagues to deal with the funding aspects. The €20 million allocation in the national development plan over the next number of years is a significant increase in capital for the sector. We worked hard to ensure there was a significant capital piece. I am excited about the possibilities that will bring. Because it is over the course of five years it brings certainty and stability. It is an 800% increase on the previous allocation. Last year there was zero capital and previously there was 0.5. Having €4 million in the first year of the NDP and the certainty over the five years means there is huge potential for us. How exactly that is going to be developed and rolled out is something we will consult closely with the sector on. We know it has significant ideas about how to create youth spaces. It is worth noting in the context of its place in the overall Department budget that those investments in schools that take up the majority of the NDP funding for the Department are also investments in our communities. The Department has been clear to schools. My understanding is that with the new tranche of funding it will possibly be even clearer that those spaces should be available to communities. It is one of the benefits of youth services returning to the Department of Education and Youth that we would foresee that partnership growing with schools so spaces can be made available. Part of the purpose of capital funding will be to deal with more emergency issues in the first instance while we work with the sector to see how that funding is most usefully used and leveraged in partnership with the schools and with local authorities that may have facilities that exist, but could do with enhancement or being kitted out, etc. Schools are expensive buildings, as the Deputy knows, and are in use for a period of the day. There is also great scope for those spaces to be used to great effect. In respect of the current funding, I will pass to Mr. Duff.

I will go back to youth night. A big part of youth night was a response to what the sector has told us. Those people who have been affected directly or indirectly by youth work know the value of youth work. Possibly outside of that kind of area our communities do not exactly know what is involved in youth work, the value of youth work, the methodology and the principles that underpin it. A big part of youth night was trying to break out to communities that maybe are not so familiar with what is going on. That is something we have heard from the sector. It is a response and a part of opportunities for youth to maybe build awareness and recognition, not just of youth work but of youth workers and the organisations there. In terms of the funding there are definitely challenges. We have a lot of engagement directly with youth services and the national youth organisations that deliver the services, and we hear the challenges. If you look at the funding youth affairs has achieved in the context of increases in the past five or six years, we have been consistent in the increases we have achieved.

The sector has looked for larger increases and that is not always possible. There are competing priorities across the Department but across Government as well. If you look at the last five to six years, there is a consistency to the increase for youth affairs funding and on UBU funding as well. A really good way of building sustainability is to have consistent increases year on year. It also adds to a bit more predictability for the organisations and the services.

I would add that on top of UBU, we have our resilience and effectiveness scheme. That is where we empower the ETBs, where they can support individual services where they find the challenges.

For the additional UBUs that are planned in the roll-out, will that figure remain at €190,000?

Mr. Duff might briefly answer the Deputy's question.

Those services will benefit from any increases to the UBU budget.

I thank Mr. Duff. I call Deputy Roche.

First, the witnesses are most welcome. I thank them for the opportunity to gain a greater understanding of the level of work and the task that lies ahead.

I am taken by the numbers of people that the services reach out to. The services deliver youth work and developmental opportunities to 450,000 young people aged 10 to 24 across Ireland with 2,000 youth workers and 40,000 volunteers. The volunteers obviously are central to a lot of the work that goes on here. How does the Department ensure that they can continue to get volunteers and what incentives are there for those people who sign up for what is an extraordinary commitment?

Mr. Duff will take that question and talk about our volunteer activation fund and other measures.

When we look back at Covid, it had an impact on volunteering, not only in the youth sector but across the spectrum. The recruitment of new volunteers and the retention of existing volunteers is challenging. Often people will start volunteering in a youth club because they may have a family connection there. Their own sons and daughters are involved and as they age out, sometimes volunteers move on.

As Ms O'Neill mentioned, we have a volunteer activation fund. Last year, that was €650,000 with which we supported youth organisations in recruiting new volunteers and initiatives to hold on to those volunteers. However, it is challenging.

Separate to that specific initiative, we have the youth services grant scheme, which funds the national youth organisations. There are 35 national youth organisations across the country that we support. That budget was approximately €15 million last year. That supports the core activities of those youth organisations as well and they can work then on volunteering through that.

Youth workers often fill gaps in terms of mental health issues and child protection issues. Homelessness is another issue. There are people qualified to deal with any of those. How does the Department ensure that those youth workers are not caught up or deployed to provide such services that others are qualified to provide?

That is an important point. In particular, I suppose when we are thinking about the place and the future direction of youth services, it demonstrates how important it is for us to work in an integrated way with other Departments and services to ensure that youth workers are free to do youth work and that others are also playing their part. It is a really important part of our strategy going forward. Ms Kavanagh is going to talk to the Deputy's question in more detail.

I thank the Deputy for his question. We have heard from the sector that definitely youth workers often respond to multiple needs of young people that may not fit within the particular sphere of the skills and capacities of a youth worker, whether in relation to mental health or drugs support. However, youth workers are skilled at working with young people. They are trusted by young people. Very often, a young person will approach a youth worker initially for support. Youth workers are very well connected across communities. They work closely with other service providers. They know the staff in each of those other services and they will very often refer on, if the particular support that a young person needs is provided by another service. They may also often continue to work with those young people. While a young person may be accessing more specialised support for particular challenges or issues in their lives, they will stay engaged with the youth service and the youth worker will continue to support them in the wider aspect of their life.

It is analogous to what happens in schools as well. One thing we are finding is the similarities that we need to ensure that we are working across the school system and across the youth sectors in an integrated way to ensure that supports that are available to one are available to the other and that we are able to ensure that any professional working with a child who has an issue like that arise knows where to go for the rest of the support that is available.

Briefly, because the clock is going to catch me, the 2,000 youth workers are qualified, accredited and appraised. Where you have volunteers, for example, it is a very sensitive area of work. What guarantees or safeguards are there for volunteers who may be challenged in terms of some of the work that they would have to do from a legal point of view? If I was a volunteer, what safeguards are there to prevent me from being the one who is pursued if something within that sector goes wrong?

I will take that. Volunteers are important and central to the youth service. Youth work was established by volunteers initially before there were ever paid professional youth workers. Every organisation recruits volunteers to work in a youth work setting - often in volunteer-led clubs - but volunteers also support professional youth work projects that are staffed by youth workers. All the organisations would have their training programme and the youth workers would be supported in terms of induction training and working with young people, safeguarding and child protection. In all of those really important elements, they are supported by the organisations themselves. They are very much protected by the organisation and supported by them. While they are working, they may be supported by club support workers whose specific role is to train volunteers, to support the recruitment but to continue to support them while they are engaged in volunteer-led youth work.

I thank Ms Kavanagh. Apologies also have been received from Senator Nelson Murray. I call Senator Scahill, who will be followed by Deputy O'Rourke.

The witnesses are all very welcome here this morning. I welcome the opportunity to have this discussion about youth services because it is an element that sometimes gets overlooked on this committee.

Going back to the summer holiday meals pilot programme during the summer, I had the pleasure of joining the Minister, Deputy McEntee, last summer in the Monsignor McCarthy complex in Athlone and the benefit to the people participating and the feedback that we got from the young people was brilliant. We have spoken extensively here about hot school meals but that is an initiative that deserves a lot of credit. I welcome its inclusion and I look to see that pilot project being rolled out on a much larger scale.

In relation to the provision of youth services, we regularly hear of the same issues and feedback, not only from youth services but most of the services in the country. It is around securing multi-annual funding, proper workforce development, fair pay, streamlined reporting and capital investment in youth services. The challenges I hear from many of the youth services concern the rising costs and the stagnant baseline, recruitment and retention issues, inadequate infrastructure and a funding model that can meet demand.

I welcome the news that there is €90.1 million this year for core youth services.

That is also for expanding the services. Given rising costs, will we be able to expand services or will that amount just prevent the service from contracting?

I am happy to take those questions. On the capital piece, we engage directly with youth services and the national youth organisations, so we know that the concept or manner of youth space is really important to young people and the youth workers. We have seen a whole spectrum of really good practice and facilities but also some challenging spaces. The capital programme announcement is really positive for us because it is the first time that we have had certainty around capital funding over a period. Funding of €20 million over five years is really important to us.

The Senator made a point about summer meals. We were happy to lead on and fund that last year. It was a very successful programme. We spoke to a lot of youth services about its impact.

My colleague, Mr. Ó Loinsigh, will answer the question on multi-annual funding.

Unfortunately, multi-annual funding is not currently available to the youth affairs unit. We are obliged to adhere to the public sector spending code, so it is not possible. All of the grants in the youth affairs unit are done on an annual basis. Under the provisions of the Department of public expenditure's Circular 13/2014, we must give the money out on an annual basis and bodies have to return any funding that comes back. That is the reason we do not have multi-annual funding specifically. However, two of our schemes - the UBU scheme and the targeted youth employability support initiative - run on three-year cycles. We get groups to reapply for the funding every single year so that they stay within that three-year cycle.

Action No. 1 in the Department's strategy document, entitled "Opportunities for Youth: National Strategy for Youth Work and Related Services", is to development "a model for multi-annual national youth policy priorities". The strategy does not specifically say funding. In implementing that, though, we will review how funding is provided and what certainty we can give, where possible, to services. This is not the only sector where this has an impact. It is the case across the health sector and other sectors where public services are delivered by non-public sector bodies. There is a level of certainty and awareness in the system. We will certainly try to ensure that the services that we fund can have as much certainty as we can give them.

Perfect. With the NDP announcement, the Department knows there is €4 million per year. Will the Department consider providing that multi-annually? For these organisations, it is all about certainty, stability and staff retention on the ground. Last November, Ms Sinéad Keane from Spunout stressed that annual funding cycles caused uncertainty and prevented long-term planning. The fact that the Department has €4 million allocated over each of the next five years-----

Yes. For the capital programme, we have that certainty in terms of the amount that will be available in each of the years, so it will be possible for us to develop a programme. Like we do in the schools sector, we will look at the pipeline of projects, develop criteria for what might happen and when, and start building that out with the sector. We have only just received the funding in the NDP very recently and we have not had our first meeting with the sector yet to talk about it, but we will do that shortly. We have been engaging with our colleagues in the planning and building unit who obviously have great expertise in this space. One of the advantages of youth affairs being part of this Department is that we can leverage the knowledge that already exists in the system to determine how that capital programme might be used to best effect. We will engage closely on the matter with the sector.

I am sorry for missing the opening statements but I was in the Dáil Chamber. I have read them.

Before I ask my questions, I have lived in one of the youngest constituencies in this State, and been a public representative for it, for more than ten years, yet I have not seen any involvement by the Government or the Department of Education and Youth. They are practically absent from the area despite the fact that there is a huge need for services, including youth services, in every shape and form. Tremendous credit to the volunteers who do the vast majority of the lifting where services exist. However, a lot of these services do not exist. The contribution by successive Governments and the Department has been paltry and pathetic. It is a terrible reflection on them.

In her opening statement, ms O'Neill said, "core current funding of €90.1 million will support existing youth services and youth organisations, while also enabling the expansion of both targeted and universal services for young people." How will the Department expand services? We consistently hear from the people who deliver these services that the funding does not match the increase in demand and need. What expansion of services is expected in the year ahead based on that funding?

Ten new UBUs are set to open. One will be in the Louth and Meath Education and Training Board, LMETB, area, which is funded under this programme. It is important to note the amount of funding that is provided to the ETB services. Those services are very visible through the ETBs because the funding is dispersed from the Department through the ETBs to the youth services. It is not necessarily branded "from the Department" but it is clearly directed through the ETBs to youth services. The sum of €90.1 million is not an inconsiderable amount of funding. As the Deputy and other members have said, when visiting those youth services, the funding can be seen being put to very good effect in communities. We are certainly seeing a good return on that investment.

The Department is seeing an incredible return-----

Yes.

-----on a paltry investment. That is how I would put it. I can speak for communities. I can name them: Dunshauglin, Dunboyne, Ashbourne, Ratoath, east Meath, Kells, Slane and Duleek. These areas have massive populations of young people. They do not all play football. These are people who are outside of those who need targeted interventions and supports. I commend the open night that was held last year. Funding and buildings are always an issue for youth groups. Without exception, these groups are trying to find a more sustainable future for themselves. This budget has been incredibly frustrating as a public representative and it is far more frustrating for the volunteers who need the support of the Department.

I am sorry, but I am just not 100% sure of the question. Is the Deputy asking about the level of funding?

The level of funding. I will move on, seeing as we will disagree on funding.

No, I am not disagreeing, Deputy. I am trying to make sure I understand the question. Sorry.

It is about the level of funding. Ms O'Neill, in her opening statement, said that there was additional funding to provide additional services. My argument is that the funding is a fraction of what is necessary to meet the existing need and will not be sufficient to provide additional services. Has the Department measured what additional services this funding will provide?

We know that we are opening ten new additional services this year through the ETBs. We have additional funding this year to run youth night again. That was achieved through savings previously and we are delighted to be able to run that event again. I will have to get the total figure for the LMETB youth funding but I believe that it is over €1.5 million, which is a significant increase this year, with the additional service and all of the additional spend. The €90.1 million is the voted allocation for the Department for youth services and we think that we are using it to very good effect.

In relation to the funding piece, we have to take into consideration the increase in costs that all these facilities have.

The implementation plan was one of issues raised here last November. Ms O'Neill said the plan sets out strategic objectives and 18 actions for delivery in 2025 and 2026. What is the status of the implementation plan? It is February 2026 now.

I agree. We acknowledged in the opening statement that there was a delay in the publication of the implementation plan. This was partly due to the fact the youth affairs unit was transferred across into the Department. There was additional work done building on what had already been done on the implementation plan. The Department perhaps does things slightly differently from the previous Department. We have a draft implementation plan now for approval by the Minister and to go out with the sector. We have used the time since youth affairs moved across to embed the unit more closely in the Department to leverage some of the supports that are available in the Department. It will be a stronger plan as a result. It is important to note that we are continuing to deliver on the 18 actions. The plan will include an update on what has happened to date, as well as the important inputs we have got from the youth sector in the meantime.

I wish to come back to the implementation plan. The policy document or strategy for youth work, Opportunities for Youth, was published in autumn 2024. We are 18 months into a four-year strategy and we are only now getting an implementation plan. There is no point in putting together all this effort to produce a beautiful glossy document if it is not going to be implemented. Without a plan, that is not going to happen. I have heard of too many policy documents that sit on shelves and nothing happens to them. The stakeholders will tell us that there was supposed to be engagement with them on the implementation plan. We are now into February. We are talking about an implementation plan until the end of this year. What is going to happen after that? There has been no interaction with the stakeholders.

The national youth sector reference group is mentioned in actions 2 and 3 of the strategy. Again, there has been no engagement with youth organisations on the reference group. That was supposed to happen before the end of last year. It is important that the stakeholders are involved in the implementation and the oversight. In relation to the governance of the strategy, the document reports that the implementation will be via Young Ireland's governance structures. Where is the accountability? Who has oversight of the strategy implementation? The engagement is important, but so are oversight and accountability.

Deputy Ní Raghallaigh brought up Youth Night. I attended an event in Cavan and it was excellent. I commend all the work done by our youth workers, volunteers and young people. Physical space is the challenge. For example, they do not have a drop-in centre in Cavan. They are competing with other voluntary organisations for the use of community spaces. I visited a project in Clones. There is a drop-in space there. It is an excellent project. However, it needs a huge amount of work to address the leaks and so on. The Department is talking about investing €4 million in capital funding from this year until 2030. In 2024, there was nothing for capital funding. In today's world, I do not know where the Department thinks €4 million is going to get it. There is such need out there. We need to see much more vision and investing in capital space for our young people. It is so vitally important. I know the Department is talking about shared spaces with schools, but unless the Department makes that happen, there is going to reluctance and push-back from schools. We need to see how the people in the youth sector can work with schools if that is what the Department's plan is. Will the Department look at repurposing vacant properties, of which there are many in our towns and villages, that could be used for young people?

I will start before bringing in colleagues. The implementation plan certainly has not been sitting on a shelf. I have a very well-thumbed copy here. It guides all our work in the youth affairs section. Regarding engagement with the stakeholders, since the transfer to this Department, I have met with the chief executives of many of the youth organisations. I have told them all that I am available to them. I have met individually with them, outgoing and incoming-----

That is not what they are reporting to us.

It is the case. I can provide dates if necessary. I have certainly engaged very closely with them. We had all the youth organisations in at a forum with the former Minister where she spent considerable time with them last October. We explained to the youth sector where were on the implementation. We had a workshop on the implementation of the plan and consultation with them on it. We have received extremely useful inputs from the sector, from a number of different organisations and the National Youth Council, on inputs to the plan and what the plan could look like. A number of actions in the plan are being led by youth organisations. We have had direct engagement with them with respect of those. I acknowledge that it is late. Since the unit was transferred into the Department, we have been clear that we needed to do a piece of work and that we wanted to do it as quickly as possible in consultation with the sector. We have strong ongoing meetings with the sector all the time. We meet regularly.

In relation to the Young Ireland governance structures, that is laid out in the plan. The Department has already had engagement with Young Ireland. To the Senator's point about where the accountability is, we will ensure that is built in here and in the draft implementation plan that we have where we talk about the youth sector reference group. On the other group, which an interdepartmental group, we have draft terms of reference of how that will work and how it will report into the structure, which is really important as well. Because Young Ireland is the overarching plan and this is specific to youth work and related services, that is important. It covers those cross-departmental issues that other Deputies and Senators have referenced and making sure that youth work and youth services get the benefit of those across the piece.

I thank the Senator for her comments regarding Youth Night. It was the brainchild of my colleague Mr. Duff. It was really successful and we are hoping to build on it in the future. Again, we wish to pay tribute to all the work done by volunteers, youth clubs and youth services across the country, who took that on enthusiastically. Many of them got funding from us. Many of them went ahead and did not even apply for funding. They said they were fine and went ahead with activities. It was great to see.

Regarding youth spaces, that certainty of having the capital funding of €20 million over the next five years is new and valuable. To the Senator's points about how that might best be spent, I agree. There are probably more of what we in the school sector call emergency works yet to happen. On the Senator's point about the reluctance from schools, Ms Kavanagh, for example, attended the Education and Training Boards Ireland, ETBI, principals' conference last week. She spoke with them about youth services and how they could work and got a good reception about how we might work better together. We are trying to leverage that.

Does the Department prioritise or identify ideas that have massive youth populations? It is a bit similar to a question that was raised earlier. Dublin West and Fingal have one of the biggest youth populations. We had a meeting recently with a provider of services in the area. Every TD commented that youth facilities are probably one of things in the constituency we are most lacking in. In contrast with our own anecdotal experiences of growing up, there are not youth clubs any more. They would have been a staple, when I was growing up in a local authority housing estate, for every young person, not just a few identified young people. I see the figures for youth participation in some of the Department's initiatives. I am guessing some of that is a one-night or one-off situation, not a regular interaction.

The overall budget is €90 million. Again, I am not blaming the witnesses for that. It is up to Ministers and political parties in the Dáil. It is comparable to what is given to Horse Racing Ireland.

About the same amount of money is now being given to young people in the country and we have a vast, growing youth population. I looked through the Department's priority actions. Priority 4 is to ensure there is a sufficient range of opportunities available to young people and priority 13 is to provide support for outdoor and indoor spaces. I will focus on one area, because I know we do not have time, and that is Tyrrelstown in my constituency. Have the witnesses had any discussion about that area? The CSO figures for the last time indicated there were 771 children aged up to 14 years old in just that small area. The 15- to 19-year-old population was the biggest. There is nothing in the area overall for young people. I know there is a Foróige and I am sure it does great work, but there are a load of derelict buildings, and I have been banging on for years that the council and Department, while they say they will put in infrastructure, need to be acquiring or renting out those buildings and providing youth spaces for young people in the area. It is just so obvious.

Last year, the community centre closed. It is owned by the Department of education, so it is in the witnesses' bailiwick. Nothing was done to help all the clubs that use it, such as Sonics Basketball Club, find alternative locations. Our local councillor and I had to meet with all the clubs. The Department should have been doing that and helping them to find other spaces to rent. They should not have been doing that themselves. I have just had an email, as an example, from the Tyrrelstown soccer club. The fee for the AstroTurf pitch that has been put in is going up from €60 an hour to €120 an hour. The club is not even allowed to block book it. It just has to go online for it.

This area is in dire need of investment in youth facilities. Another statistic that I saw is that 51% of the population is renting local authority housing or getting HAP. It is an obvious red flag area for youth facilities. Have the witnesses looked at it? I have seen nothing happening there for years now. We also had a young person killed in that area in a racist attack. It is a diverse area. There is a real danger that young people hanging around are often blamed for being a gang, though obviously young people hang around in groups. There needs to be a focus on big populations of young people and providing not just for the select few who are identified as in need. There is a widespread need and all young people really should have access to such facilities. I hope the Department will focus on areas like that and acquire some of the vacant buildings in that concrete jungle that was put up, because planning in the area has failed from the word go.

I thank the Deputy. Mr. Duff will take most of her questions. On her query on numbers of youth clubs, there are about 1,400 youth clubs around the country, of which we are in regular engagement with 1,100, with others growing on a regular basis.

On prioritisation, our biggest funding scheme, UBU, was almost €52 million last year. We already mentioned the ten new services. How that prioritisation works and locations are selected is that a call goes out to the 16 ETBs, which, through the Youth Work Act, have statutory responsibility for youth services and youth work. They put forward proposals. We look at things like youth population and the deprivation index, and ETBs can also put in their own demographic or local intelligence.

Would that area come up in that examination?

It did. Dublin and Dún Laoghaire ETB put forward-----

What if there is not an ETB in that area? They will pick areas where they have schools.

The 16 ETBs have full coverage. Dublin and Dún Laoghaire ETB would be responsible for that part of Dublin, so it would have put an application in for, I believe, Citywest. Dublin and Dún Laoghaire ETB was not successful in it. There were only ten-----

Maybe this is a problem with how the Department is identifying.

The Deputy can come in in the second round.

There is no ETB in an area, so it gets no attention.

I thank the witnesses for being here this morning. I would like to make a number of points. Ms O'Neill mentioned in her opening presentation that school buildings are not really utilised for certain hours of the day. I think we would all agree with that. Sometimes there is after-school stuff for an hour or two, but thereafter, these buildings are vacant. The beauty is that there is a school in certainly every town but sometimes in small villages in rural, outlying parts of Ireland. Could Ms O'Neill expand on what she said about the Department being positive about seeing these buildings being used for youth activities in the evening? Beyond that statement today, what liaison has she had with school management bodies, patron bodies and school unions to develop that idea?

I think the Cathaoirleach knows from our colleagues in the planning and building unit that guidance was issued to schools in the last school year, from memory. I would have to double-check. The guidance reminded them of the Department's request that they make buildings available. In conversations with our planning and building unit about this capital development funding with our colleague, Mr. Loftus, whom the committee knows well, we have been talking about the nature of this investment by the State in communities and schools and how we might ensure that the €4 million of capital for youth services is used to best effect and that schools are encouraged to do that. We are in early stages because we only got the national development plan allocation as the plan was only published last week. I have had early conversations through the primary education forum and post-primary education forum with management bodies and other partners, most recently last autumn, since the transfer happened and I have had responsibility for youth services and making the connection between youth services.

To what extent is it happening in real time? It is a game-changer and I do not think it is happening at all.

We have not mapped it from a youth services perspective yet but it is something that we can do. Now that we have this capital funding, we will be looking at where this can best happen. As I said, one of the things we can do most effectively is to provide kit that can be rolled out in a school hall or whatever. Since I know it is important to the youth sector, I want to say that dedicated space is important, but it is not always possible to have a dedicated space. It is certainly not possible in smaller towns or villages. In those circumstances, it is a good solution to have the youth-----

Dedicated spaces are desirable for all groups, whether active retirement groups or youth groups, but it is not always realistic. Is €4 million the annual capital plan for the country?

It is for the next five years.

I could tell Ms O'Neill about a local school which is due a significant upgrade. That one school project will exceed €4 million. There is €4 million for all youth groups. It is a poor relation.

Famously, in 2015, Eircom rebranded as Eir. Removing those three letters from the brand and using a different logo famously cost the company €16 million. What has it cost the Department of education to put on the youth title, rebrand, reconfigure, and reappoint? Has there been any costing projection?

I am afraid I do not have a clue. I will have a look.

I suspect that cost would have exceeded €4 million. I think the rebrand may have cost more. It is significant to reassign Departments and roles, to retrain some people, to move across sections, and to rebrand.

I doubt it, because the logo is all done centrally by government it is a case of deleting it and putting it in. We just have a couple of signs on a couple of buildings.

It is the reconfiguration too. Ms O'Neill might come back to us. There is corporate governance in every Department. Surely someone knows about that reconfiguration. It is not just branding but reconfiguration.

I will bring across our colleagues from-----

Ms O'Neill might come back to the committee. I might get a seconder on that point. Deputy Jen Cummins has seconded it. I would be grateful if Ms O'Neill corresponded with the committee.

I have a final point, if time allows. Will the Department consider benchmarking the salaries of youth workers against those of their public sector equivalents to address recruitment and retention pressures? It is important to flag that Ms Rachael Murphy of Foróige was before the committee in November. She highlighted that youth work salaries are not benchmarked and are uncompetitive compared with other public roles.

As I mentioned earlier, many public services are provided by people who are not public servants. Youth workers are not public servants. They are employed directly by the individual youth organisations. Their terms and conditions, including pay, are set by the individual organisation as their employer. Any proposal to change the status of youth workers or to align pay with the public sector would have wider implications for the public sector as a whole. The position, as I said, is that the public service is provided by a combination of public servants and myriad grant-funded organisations. Any proposal in this area would have to be considered by the relevant Department and the Department of public expenditure.

I thank the witnesses very much for being here. I have been around youth work for a long time. As some of the witnesses will know, I have been involved since the late 1990s. I have seen every iteration of which Department might be responsible, is not responsible and then is again responsible for youth work. It repeats. It is like eat, sleep, repeat. It is the same thing all the time. The thing that is consistent, however, is youth workers. They are consistent in their support for young people and have been since the work started at day dot - I am not sure when youth work officially started - whether they are volunteers or paid workers.

The overarching challenge for youth work is this constant change, the shifting of the goalposts and the lack of long-term vision. The only people with long-term vision for youth work are youth workers. I say that not to be disrespectful in any way to the Department. This is not the Department's difficulty. It is a Government decision to keep moving youth work from place to place. It is not good enough for young people. Every time we turn on the news, we hear that some young person has done something wrong or has done this, that and the other. We constantly blame young people when we do not have a long-term vision for youth work. Youth work is central to ensuring that young people live fulfilled lives. When they are not living fulfilled lives, we see all the things that they get blamed for, from one end of the year to the other.

It is this Department's turn now. I would not like to see youth work move away from where it is now. I do not know if it is in the right place but it is in the place it is so let it be there now. I would love us to move away from year-to-year planning and year-to-year funding. The challenge is that young people do not live year to year. Young people are going to be with us from the time they are ten - or eight, depending on the service - until they are 24. In some countries, it is 29. If we could take a long-term vision for youth work, it would make things a lot easier for the youth workers who are doing it on the ground.

I am very disappointed - this is not a question; I am stating it - that implementation plans are delayed. I understand the rationale that responsibility has changed Department. The problem is that, in the previous Department, it did not get done. That excuse is done. I encourage the witnesses to get this sorted now and forever. Every time responsibility moves, this is the excuse. Youth workers are like the poor relatives of those who work in education. It breaks my heart to hear that youth workers are not public servants. They are public servants who are not recognised as public servants. They work alongside teachers and special needs assistants, SNAs. They also work alongside gardaí in every single community. They do not get rewarded in their pay and conditions. That is why many youth workers are leaving. They feel disrespected. We must consider that. We must look at public service status for youth workers. The reality is that they are public servants. They are not paid as such, and that is a different situation, but they are doing this country a massive service. For them not to be recognised is shameful.

Youth work is not the easiest job. It is a great job, and I did it for a long time, but it is not the easiest job. There are antisocial hours. Everybody else goes home at 5 p.m., or whatever else. Youth workers are sometimes only starting work at that time. That is a challenge.

I want to pick up on the point about why youth work plays such an important role in our society. Representatives of the Solas Project, which is in my constituency, were before the committee. I want people to realise how much that organisation is putting into that community. It had a rotating phone line service over the Christmas period when other services in mental health were closed because they do not have the staff. That is what youth workers are doing. They are plugging gaps they should not have to fill, but do.

I spoke to the Minister last week about Ballyfermot Youth Service, which is in my constituency. It does not have the funding to expand its services. The Department is only catching up to where there is need. It must see individual cases. It cannot just see the overall picture. I know that €50 million sounds like a lot but it is not that much money when you consider the amount of work that goes into youth work. The value of that work is priceless. That needs to be considered. Ballyfermot Youth Service cannot expand or even maintain the things it is doing because the funding is no longer suitable to the need out there.

Reference was made to considering schools as a third space for young people. That is fine and grand. The school completion programmes fills a gap in the afternoons. That space cannot be taken from them. They can come in in the evening. That is plugging a hole in a situation. Every community needs a youth service. There needs to be a dedicated service that the young people own. When you have a youth service plugged in somewhere else, it is just renting a space. They will never own that space. The whole point about third spaces is that the young people do own it. I would be reluctant for schools to be the only option. They should be the last option and not the only option.

I have left no time. I am sorry. I will come back in later. How will the Department take into consideration, in the round, all the things I have said and make the situation better for the youth workers and young people on the ground? I am sorry I have left so little time.

That is no problem; I will try to answer quickly. The answer is in answer 3 in Opportunities for Youth, which is to develop a renewed and whole-of-government vision for the role of State-funded youth work services in the Ireland of today. I completely take the Deputy's point about vision. We have buckets of it and want to ensure that we work closely with the sector to develop that piece.

Under action 3, it is envisaged that a group of Departments and agencies will develop that vision. It can only be developed in partnership, alignment and collaboration with the youth sector. We hope the youth work reference group will work closely with us to develop that vision and to work on many of the points the Deputy has raised. I hope we will get to come back to the Deputy.

We will now have a second round of questions. I will set a three-minute time limit. We have run over time slightly. We will wrap up after the second round. I call Deputy Ní Raghallaigh.

Is mian liom ceist a chur ar na finnéithe maidir le hobair na hóige trí mheán na Gaeilge. Cé mhéad club óige atá ar oscailt sa Ghaeltacht faoi láthair agus atá i ndáiríre á fheidhmiú, ní hamháin ar pháipéar? Cé mhéad airgid ar son na gclubanna Gaeltachta atá ag teacht ón Roinn Oideachais agus Óige agus cé mhéad atá ag teacht ó Roinn na Gaeltachta? Tá deacrachtaí acu ó thaobh earcaíochta agus daoine a choinneáil. Ó thaobh airgeadais de, is mór an fhadhb í. Cad atá ar siúl ag an Roinn le dul i ngleic leis sin?

Déanfaidh mé iarracht é sin a fhreagairt. Caithfidh mé an t-eolas a bhailiú. This is not my area. I am doing my best to understand the questions. Déanfaidh mé iarracht é sin a fhreagairt. I will come to Mr. Ó Loinsigh in a moment. We have core funding to two national organisations, Feachtas and Ógras. We support youth clubs through the local youth club grant scheme, LYCGS, which is administered locally by the education and training boards, ETBs. There are five organisations involved in that, which are Feachtas, Ógras, Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, Óige na Gaeltachta and Muintearas. That is how Irish-medium activities for young people are delivered and communities are strengthened through community-based participation.

There is also one dedicated Irish-language UBU, Your Space Your Place in Tramore. That is the targeted programme whereas the others are more universal. We spoke a little about that.

I am going to ask Mr. Ó Loinsigh to talk a little bit about the youth work research pilot, the translations of our materials and the plans we have for the future.

Ms O'Neill covered a good few of the Deputy's questions. Regarding youth clubs and the number of clubs within the Gaeltacht, we do not actually have a breakdown of those just yet. However, as part of our mapping project we are finalising at present, that will be publicly available. That is all the clubs we fund and then any independent or other clubs can put in their information. That will become clear.

One of the UBU services is in Leitir Móir i gContae na Gallimhe and we also have the Irish language research pilot. This is a research pilot, which I am pretty sure the Deputy knows about, between Mayo, Sligo and Leitrim ETB and Kerry ETB, which will be putting a new outreach youth service in Erris in north Mayo and then just outside Cahersiveen and around Waterville. That will be an outreach UBU service within both those Gaeltacht areas. The research is being carried out by ourselves and Údarás na Gaeltachta. We are also just about to get a university partner to do the research into that. We are hoping that will guide future Irish language policy in terms of youth services, potentially for smaller ones like in Meath or down in Rinn in Waterford or where outreach is going into a very small community that may not be able to sustain a full UBU service, so they can have an outreach service there instead.

To note, one of the benefits of being situated in the Department is strong engagement with our colleagues in the Gaeltacht unit and the Irish language medium education unit in the Department to try to ensure we have a coherent approach, both in school and then with the youth services.

We have also recently begun engagement with colleagues in the Department with responsibility for the Gaeltacht to talk about the plans they have and how we might ensure we are being consistent and not duplicating services for young people.

There is a mapping process under way. Is that going to look at buildings, staffing, funding and the number of young people involved?

There are a couple of different processes under way which will deal with some of those different things. I might bring Ms Kavanagh in there because there is the audit of the workforce, which deals with some of those things, and then the mapping project.

I can take the question on the workforce strategy.

Related to that, is the workforce strategy due soon?

Yes, it is. Action 7 in Opportunities for Youth is to develop a workforce development strategy for the sector. To date, we have completed workforce and employer surveys, so we have all the baseline data and information on the workforce. We now know there are 2,000 youth workers across the country. We have all the information on salary scales, terms and conditions, the priorities of the sector and its vision for the future. That data and information is currently being analysed. We should have that by this quarter.

When we heard from the different groups in November, they said it was the issue of pay, contracts, stability, career pathways and training needs, to flag a few. I presume they are included.

Absolutely. I am a former youth worker myself, so I understand the situation in the youth work sector. There are a range of salary scales across the sector, so we are having a look at that, but the terms and conditions are set by the employer. However, there are several things we can do for training supports and addressing some of those broader issues. The findings from the analysis of the surveys will inform the development of the strategy. The next phase of that is consultation with the sector to look at how we move forward this year.

When might we expect the strategy to be published?

All going well, by the end of the year.

Going back to the area of mapping, one of the other asks from the groups was around a national youth spaces strategy. If we are mapping this stuff, are we mapping it with regard to the many issues with funding or how little distance the €4 million will go? Will that piece around youth spaces be mapped as well?

Mr. Ó Loinsigh might take the piece on mapping and I can come in on capital.

The mapping project is split into two pieces. We have the internal map, which will have all the UBU services and all the clubs we know about, and that will be mapped against the deprivation index in each of the areas. It also has the 15-minute drive times around each service and the 15-minute walk times so that we have an idea of how many young people are captured within both the drive times and the walk times.

More importantly, for the country as a whole, we will have the external map. This will have everything on the inside but will be open to the public, and you will be able to filter it by, say, Irish language club, uniformed club and just your general youth clubs and things like that.

To the Deputy's question on the mapping of the premises, that is not currently envisaged in the project. Is that correct?

The services will just be visible on the map itself.

As part of the capital development piece, that is what we will have to do now. We can presumably expand the mapping now. I am not familiar with the programming behind it, but assuming that is technologically possible, we can ask that data and add it in so we have a good sense of the estate.

Yes, or the leasing or buying or whatever. When will those maps be ready?

The witnesses might very quickly say when the maps will be out.

It is currently a working progress with a different unit, so we hope it will potentially be by the end of quarter 1.

I am going to say quarter 2, Deputy O'Rourke.

We are out of time, Deputy. Quarter 2 sounds safer. Next is Deputy Roche.

I note in the Department's statement that, this September coming, we will have an opportunity to exhibit our wares because, during Ireland's EU Presidency, we will have 26 member state youth groups coming here. That is something the witnesses are probably looking forward to in many ways, but what youth policy outcomes does the Department expect to deliver during the EU Presidency?

We are currently discussing that with the Minister, so it has not been finalised and we cannot announce it yet, but when that is done, we will happily provide that to the committee. There is one aspect that has been agreed upon. Each Presidency trio - in our case that is Ireland, Lithuania and Greece - agree a focus for the trio. That was done some time ago. We have agreed on exploring youth goal 4 of the EU youth goals, which is information and constructive dialogue. That means a lot of the work - not all of it of course, but some of the work which happens in the space - will be centred on that theme across the three Presidencies of 18 months, of which we are the first. This means there will be a theme to the youth conference in this respect, and we will certainly be looking to progress some texts at the Council that are focused on that. We probably have to unpack that a little bit more, so we are consulting continually with young people in that regard. There are subgoals under that goal, so we are looking at which of those we might focus on. A lot of the theme of the conference will also be that we have been asked by the European Commission to review the youth goals themselves. That will also be a focus of the work the young people do at the conference. We are very much looking forward to it.

Excellent. Where is the conference taking place?

TBC. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has a scheme of events and venues, and we are working with it on finalising events and times. There is a particular focus with the youth conference because the idea is young people will not necessarily be away from their study or work for very long. It usually happens a little over a weekend, so we are working on the venue and date with the Department.

The best of luck with it. That is all I can wish for the witnesses today.

Go raibh maith agat.

Very good. Next up is Senator Scahill.

Mr. Duff referenced earlier the resilience and effectiveness scheme. That is an initiative on operational resilience, which is needed to operate effectively and support smaller youth services, increase the provision and benefit organisations that have faced additional cost pressures, including those with a reduction in service provision in recent years.

Does Mr. Duff think there is sufficient funding for the UBU services in the first instance? Those services are operating on, I think, €120,000 annually and then there are some UBUs that are not even operating on that amount. If there was sufficient funding for the UBUs, is there a need for the resilience and effectiveness scheme?

There is a number of parts to the answer. The resilience and effectiveness is really valued by the sector and, indeed, by the youth function within ETBs because the youth officers there are closer to the youth services and they have some scope on where they target the money. Not to duplicate what I said earlier, but I think consistent year-on-year funding increases are the way to drive sustainability. To the Senator's broader point around the funding and how UBU operates, there is a planned review under opportunities for youth on UBU, which is starting this year. That is a chance to look at the scheme. Going back to Deputy Coppinger's question on how we prioritise, that would be in the scope of the UBU review.

What is the demand for the resilience and effectiveness fund at the moment? It is the ETBs, I think, that determine who gets it. What is the demand like for that?

We would not have sight of the applications that come from youth services to the youth function. We would see the recommendation from the ETB to us where it would make a proposal on which youth service or youth services to give the resilience and effectiveness funding to and how much.

How much is that fund? Is it about €600,000 at the moment? That has come down in recent years. Was it €800,000 in 2001?

Resilience and effectiveness does not actually run every year. It is not an annual scheme. Also, in 2023, it did not run at all. It does go up and down depending on the finances of the year.

Some of what was said about ensuring youth work services is high quality and so forth is based on gathering data, conducting research and creating evidence. What sort of investment is put into gathering data? We know that lots of data is collected. Is that used to inform policy going forward? Both Deputy O'Rourke and Deputy Coppinger have raised the point about the high proportion of young people in their constituencies and very few youth services for them. Is the data used to influence policy so that areas can be targeted where there are large volumes of young people with very few services for them?

There was a point made about using spaces like schools for shared spaces for young people. That might work where there are youth clubs that meet, say, once a week. However, I really think it is important to have drop-in centres for young people. We hear all the time about complaints going to the Garda about groups of young people hanging around. They are hanging around because they have nowhere else to go and they are not causing any problems. It would be important that they would have drop-in centres. A figure of €4 million is not going to go anywhere near what is needed. Youth has always been the poor relation of whatever Department it is in. The investment that has gone into our youth has been very poor. I would love to see an increase in that. We all would.

To address the capital needs, I have asked before about repurposing vacant buildings. Is that being looked at, for example, to provide a drop-in space for young people?

I thank the Senator. On the research piece I will answer and then pass on to Ms Kavanagh in a moment. To the query whether data is used to inform policy, the answer is yes, it is increasingly so and we can do more. Mr. Ó Loinsigh mentioned the mapping project. That is going to provide us with more and better data. Ms Kavanagh referred to the workforce planning, and that has given us data and information that we did not have previously in respect of the number of people in the sector and so on. All of that is really valuable. Again, we are working internally with our own IT services and with our own data services within the Department to do that. The Department has a research committee. We had our first research seminar last year. I am very keen that we include the youth services in that now and that we leverage that as much as possible. That is partnerships with universities, etc., to do as much as we can in that space. Ms Kavanagh is going to look at the pilot impact measurement tool.

To the Senator's question on capital and drop-in centres, we are very keen that we talk to local authorities about leveraging spaces that might be available. We have connected with the Department of housing to start that conversation and with our colleagues in the Department of community. We are at the beginning of that journey. However, we recognise that when we have something to offer, we do have a capital budget so we can start talking to local authorities about whether there are partnerships we can build in certain places, if there is a space they have that could be repurposed, etc. Yes, we are very keen to do that. The ETBs themselves have been good about repurposing spaces they have, and I think that will continue.

In all of the annual reports we have access to data each year. However, one of the things we felt we did not have much information on was the impact of youth services. The Senator may be familiar with the targeted youth employability initiative, TYESI. It works with young people aged 15 to 24 years of age who are out of school, education or employment to support them to progress. We have worked in partnership with those 18 TYESI services and Maynooth University over the last 12 months and we have developed a measurement impact tool. The trial for that will begin very shortly in the coming weeks. That will run right throughout 2026 into 2027. The purpose of that is to be able to measure the impact of participation in that particular scheme from the perspective of the young people themselves. That information is really important to us.

I am so sorry. I am trying to be equal to everyone. We have to do this out of fairness because I have to stick to the clock. We might get a few minutes at the end to give the witnesses to wrap up bits that were left as loose ends. I apologise to Ms Kavanagh. Next up is Deputy Coppinger.

It is about this data. It seems as plain as the nose on our faces that high populations of young people is who we should be looking at. There is no need to put calls out to the ETB. The CSO and the councils have the figures. Fingal is the highest growing area in Ireland and has been for a few years. Within that, I am looking at the Fingal Children and Young People's Services Committee Evidence Baseline Report 2024. It has all the population statistics for the fastest growing areas. There was a 20% increase in the population overall, which is huge. Obviously, Fingal should be an area immediately to be looked at. Within that, the highest actual growth was in Blanchardstown-Blakestown electoral district. I mentioned Tyrrelstown being in that but there are other parts as well. Then there is Ongar is another massive growing area of over 21.8%.

I had a look through the Department's UBUs in Dublin 15. There is Foróige in Blanchardstown, there is Foróige in Tyrrelstown, there is Huntstown Foróige, there is Barnardos and there is Corduff Sports and Leisure listed as places where there are UBUs. I am not seeing anything listed for Ongar at all and I am a bit surprised because it is a huge growing area. Clonee is another area where young people are just hanging around. It is very close to Ongar.

I want to give the witnesses time to answer. It seems to me that there needs to be a focus on those areas, and if the Department has not done that, it needs to. I am not really sure why the ETB is being given such a disproportionate influence, because it is only one provider of schools and whatever. Will the Department, with Fingal, look at acquiring, for example, Jack O'Neill's pub, a huge two-story building in Tyrrelstown that has been vacant for years? There are other vacant lots in that area.

Will the Department look at acquiring or renting a space to provide a youth café or facility in the area to catch young people who are not already engaged in things like sports or the Foróige club? The buildings are there. They just need to be rented out or acquired.

I will start and I will bring in colleagues. The role of the education and training boards around the country is a statutory role under the Youth Work Act 2001. They have the statutory responsibility to deliver youth work services. It is separate from the role in schools. The fact they do not have a school in a particular area is neither here nor there in respect of their statutory role to provide youth services. We will certainly continue to work closely with them in respect of identifying areas. I reassure the Deputy on that point.

The Deputy noted some of the services available in the area. As well as the UBU, Your Place, Your Space, clubs in Blanchardstown and Huntstown, there are other local organisations, such as scout groups and the Order of Malta. There is also the Foróige funding, as the Deputy said. The mapping exercise we will do will identify exactly where those are. That will be helpful to us in identifying, in conjunction with the ETBs, any areas that are not as well served as they could be.

I have two quick questions for the witnesses. First, when will the implementation plan for the strategy be published? At this point, we want information about timelines, responsible owners and measurable outputs, etc. I am particularly minded about a meeting this committee had in November last year with the National Youth Council of Ireland, NYCI. Ms Mary Cunningham was present and she cautioned that the implementation of the strategy was, in her words, aimless without a plan. She noted that, 14 months after its publication, no plan existed.

The witnesses mentioned earlier the need for other Departments and agencies to engage with the Department to bring plans to fruition. Has an interdepartmental working group been set up? Does it exist? It is imperative given that a lot of what the Department is doing in this regard transcends other Departments.

In respect of timelines, we have a draft strategy but we have to go through the process with the Minister, Deputy Naughton, and get her approval. Obviously, she will have her own input. The next stage then will be further consultation with the sector because we have included their ideas and inputs into the draft but, obviously, we will not finalise it without further consultation with them. I have met Ms Mary Cunningham and we have great regard for the input the NYCI provided on what could be in the plan. We have certainly had strong recognition of that in the draft we put together. It will of course have timelines, owners, implementation and so on, as well as information on how it will work under the Young Ireland structures.

When it comes to other Departments, as part of the development of the implementation plan, we put together the structures for two groups, namely, the interdepartmental group and the youth sector reference group. We have identified the Departments that need to be in them and so on.

That is good.

That is all part of the implementation plan.

I am finished in terms of my questions.

It has been informal to date. It has been happening to date but it has been informal and we would like to put it on a more formal footing.

I have no further questions. In my remaining few seconds, I wish to speak about the committee’s trip to visit the Solas Project in Deputy Cummins's constituency. The Solas Project will tell the Department about its shortcomings. The committee was certainly made aware of them. We might communicate the specifics to the witnesses. There is also fabulous work going on. I did not go home deflated. Rather, I was more inspired by what was going on than anything. It made me think, however, as I was travelling home to a rural constituency – Clare has incredible youth work projects and I am not taking away from that because they do exist – that there seems to be a feeling that youth work matters more in urban areas, areas where there are youth justice tie-ins and areas of socioeconomic deprivation and things like that. It is not recognised that the feeling of isolation and the struggles of youth happen in rural areas as well, and this is something we very much detected when we were in Finland. Drug problems young people face, the traps of falling into criminality and all those gaps that we want children to step over and avoid exist in rural Ireland. The idea that social problems exist in urban centres is an old-fashioned one from the 1980s. I am not saying that is what the witnesses are doing, but successes of youth work seem to be marked around urban centres at the moment. I am out of time. Going forward, the Department, the Government and we as policymakers all need to tune in a little bit more to the rural outposts of Ireland. There is certainly a need there.

Absolutely.

The witnesses might come in at the end because I am out of time. I am going to give the witnesses that kind of wrap-up. I call Deputy Cummins.

I did not leave a lot of time for the witnesses to answer the last time but I will just sum up. It really is about the monitoring and evaluation of this plan. I want to see proper timelines and things like that. There must be multi-annual funding and it has to be appropriate to the needs. It cannot be the case that a certain amount is just given for a certain project. Rather, it has to be based on the need.

I am also wondering why the Department is collecting data about the pay and conditions of youth workers. What will it do with that data?

With regard to the implementation, timelines and so on, they are built into our implementation plan. It is pretty ambitious. We are building on work that has happened already over the period of the plan. We have built that in. I am also conscious that the sector has high expectations since moving across to the Department, and we hope to meet those expectations. I would like to exceed them if possible. I did not get the chance to say this to the Deputy in the last round, but it has been said to us that some in the youth service sector believe they have come home to the Department. We are definitely embracing that. We wish to ensure that the non-formal education sector is valued for the huge benefit it brings to young people. That long-term vision is important to us and it will be part of the implementation of the strategy. I have forgotten the Deputy’s next question. I did not write it down.

It is about the multi-annual and appropriate funding. The next question after that is why the Department is collecting the data about youth worker pay.

I will go to Ms Kavanagh on the youth worker funding. On the multi-annual funding, as was outlined earlier, there are constraints to our Vote allocation and how we work with that, but we are open to exploring how we might give better certainty to services and develop rolling cycles, as we have done with the UBU clubs.

They still have to apply every year. It is over a three-year period but they apply every year. It is a huge amount of time for youth workers, senior staff and so forth.

I understand. Within the constraints of what we can do, we are open to seeing how far we can develop that so that it is easier for the youth services. We do not want them to spend their time on lots of administration. Rather, we want them to spend their time delivering services, with the appropriate level of accountability, obviously. I will ask Ms Kavanagh to address the question on the collection of the data.

We have heard for many years about the challenges and varying terms and conditions and pay scales across the country. We wanted to go out once and gather all of the relevant data that we may use. I cannot pre-empt the outcome of the findings or what will be in the workforce strategy because that will be dependent on the consultations we have with the sector on the findings. That is as much as I can say for now. It is important that the Department is aware of the range across the country.

Deputy Aidan Farrelly is our next speaker. He is not a member of our committee but we always facilitate non-members.

I thank the Cathaoirleach. The witnesses are probably all dying to get out of here at this stage so I will try to keep this nice and short. I wish I had half an hour but I do not. The workforce piece in particular interests me greatly, having been a youth worker and having worked in Maynooth University in the professional formation programmes. I am just about to publish and finish my PhD in youth work. I am nearly there. Some of my findings are extremely insightful, in the same way as I am sure the Department’s findings will be.

There is an intrinsic concern within the sector with regard to the future. That stems very much from a rough foundation ten or 15 years ago. Whenever we get responses to parliamentary questions, we see record levels of investment. We have seen an increase in funding compared with 2020. While we have seen this percentage of funding, we do not tend to recognise the damage that was inflicted on the sector pre-2020. We are probably working still from a point of catch-up within the sector. I remember the days of shaking buckets just to have arts and crafts supplies, PlayStation games or tea bags in the project. I would appreciate the witnesses' sense of the role the Department has in relation to the workforce itself.

It is an interesting dynamic with employers specifically, but what role does the Department see in the future with regard to the workforce?

I will bring in Ms Kavanagh in a moment, but first, congratulations to the Deputy-----

Not yet.

-----on being almost finished. Normally it is us providing information to the committee afterwards, but if the Deputy would like to send us on a copy, we would be very happy to receive it in due course. It is worth noting that being able to do a master's degree or PhD in youth work is a positive. Not all countries have that. It is really valued across Europe and it is recognised that Ireland leads the way in respect of that. Ms Kavanagh may wish to come in on the workforce piece.

I will not repeat what I just said but there is a real commitment to supporting the workforce. There are a number of things under way. We have just had an independent review of the North-South Education and Training Standards Committee and that is an important structure. That report, which is the final one, is due shortly. We had great engagement from the sector. We had almost 1,000 responses to the workforce survey and about a 90% response to the employers' questionnaire, which provided that bigger piece. We will be looking at analysis across those. We will have the findings available to us. Again, there is a commitment to supporting the workforce. We really value the youth workers and the work they do. We understand the role of youth workers in a community. They provide that really safe space. The relationship they build with young people is fundamental to the work. We want to continue to support and invest in that. The analysis of all that workforce data will genuinely inform the workforce development strategy. We fully intend to bring in the consultation process as soon as possible to begin to progress the drafting of that strategy.

I thank the Deputy. I always apologise because the one thing I have to be here is fair. I have to be fair in the Dáil Chamber but in here I have to be very fair and I cut across speaking time just to ensure all members are treated equally. I am conscious that in using that methodology, I am cutting the witnesses short in their responses, so I will give them eight minutes, if that works, just to close out. Members, to be fair to our colleagues, we have had our questioning time so it is for the officials to respond to any bits. You can catch the them on the way out if there are tail ends they need to cover.

I thank the Chair. I will bring in Ms Kavanagh in a moment to talk a little more about the impact assessment project because that is worth hearing about. As a wrap-up from us, I think the committee can see there is a real commitment in the team to really progressing youth work and youth services, to ensuring it is well supported and to raising awareness. Youth Night, as I said, is one example but we have other ideas and thoughts about how we might better support the sector.

There is really strong engagement - I stand by that - with the sector and we hope to build on that. I told the sector in our early meetings that we are here, that we want to be supportive, that we are listening to those involved and we are carrying that through in our ongoing engagement. We had great attendance and engagement at the first forum we had on youth services in the clock tower at the Department in the autumn and we hope to follow that up. It is a model we use in the Department. We have the primary education forum and the post-primary education forum and we see it is important to have a similar structure with youth services. We have also had a lot of bilateral meetings and a lot of organisations met the former Minister and have met the new Minister since the move across. All of that is to demonstrate the extent to which we really want to understand and get under the skin of youth services and what they are experiencing. To that end, we are very lucky to have a youth work specialist on the team. Ms Kavanagh works across the team with everybody to build that expertise. We are fortunate also to have the Presidency this year, and a lot of Mr. Duff's time will be spent working with colleagues across Europe. It is sometimes useful to do that just to remind ourselves of the extent to which we are fortunate in Ireland and we have this great infrastructure, wonderful youth services doing great work across the country, the volunteer system and so on.

In a bid to ensure we are really well informed, the team has done an immense amount of work in the last 12 to 18 months to ensure it has attended at youth services all around the country in every ETB area, and that is part of our consultation and engagement. It is a very important point that we are not just talking to organisations in meetings, but rather that we are on the ground to understand what those structures are. That informs our policy and all the work we are doing to implement opportunities for youth. I appreciate there has been disappointment that the implementation plan is not published yet, but it did not stop us from going ahead and doing a lot of the work. We are very committed to getting that out into the sector as soon as possible and finalising it in consultation with the sector.

I will leave it there and hand over to Ms Kavanagh on the impact assessment.

To pick up from where I left off with the impact measurement tool, with the targeted youth employability support initiative, there was a previous scheme and its evaluation highlighted that there should be a measurement tool co-designed for any future scheme. We have progressed that. It was a partnership between youth organisations and youth workers, Maynooth University and us in the Department. We have developed that tool now. Along the way, we consulted former participants of the TYESI and youth workers got feedback. We tested the draft survey tool and the language used with young people who are current members of TYESIs across the country. It was really important young people were comfortable providing anonymous data and information on their experience of being involved in a TYESI. We are going to begin that trial in the coming weeks. The important thing is that it talks about the impact from the perspective of each young person who participates. We have added a longitudinal aspect to that, so the survey will be repeated about every three months. Young people who participate in a TYESI may be there for three months or 18 months as it is very centred on young people. We are looking forward to seeing how this progresses over time. If this measurement impact tool is giving us really good information and works well, we will look at adjusting it for other schemes across youth affairs.

It is really important to say, and with the education from Ms Kavanagh, that the principles that underpin youth work really inform our work. We have talked a lot today about data, information, analysis and research, but we want to be very clear we do not frame young people as problems that need to be solved. Principles that underpin the methodology of youth work, such as that youth voice, are really important to us. Voluntary participation and those kinds of values really inform our thinking and decision-making, and I want to reassure the committee about that.

Does Mr. Ó Loinsigh want to add anything?

No, I am fine.

He has all the time on the clock he wants. I am sorry for cutting some of the contributions short. I sincerely thank the officials. We have long said in this committee that it is very easy to allow education to dominate our agenda here. We are very conscious of that and very committed to doing a quite considerable body of work in the youth sphere. We have visited, as I said, the Solas Project in Deputy Cummins's constituency. We hope, over the lifetime of the committee, to meet more participants in youth work, visit more youth centres and youth activities, and meet more who work in that sphere. The nurses of Ireland famously said during Covid that they appreciated our applause and thanks but they wanted a bit more than that. We have several members who spoke for those who work in the sector and there are concerns I hope we will bring forward at other meetings. I sincerely thank the officials from the Department for coming in and for their leadership in this area. We look forward to their continued engagement. There are a few action points they might come back to the committee secretariat on. I thank them very much for their engagement. I also thank the secretariat for their fantastic work, as well as the technical team.