Our guests should be aware to keep their microphones turned off until they are speaking. I advise members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate who is not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, a member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask any members partaking via MS Teams that prior to making a contribution to the meeting they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make her, him or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if speakers' statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

The witnesses who are giving evidence from a location outside the Leinster House precincts today have been advised that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts and may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter. The witnesses giving evidence from another jurisdiction should also be mindful of their domestic law and how it may apply to the evidence they give.

We have received an apology from Deputy Cathy Bennett.

We are going to begin our discussion on the current situation in Ukraine. I welcome members of the committee on foreign policy and interparliamentary co-operation of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. I also welcome H. E. Larysa Gerasko, ambassador of Ukraine to Ireland, who is a regular visitor the House and to this committee.

From the committee on foreign policy and interparliamentary co-operation of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine we have Dr. Oleksandr Oleksandrovich Merezhko, who is chairman of the committee on foreign policy and interparliamentary co-operation. We also welcome Dr. Lisa Yasko, chairwoman of the subcommittee on interparliamentary co-operation, bilateral and multilateral relations; and Ms Mariia Ionova, chairwoman of the subcommittee on the European Union and NATO.

We are also joined by Ms Maryana Bezugla, chairwoman of the subcommittee on international forms and methods of countering Russian aggression against Ukraine, and Ms Iryna Gerashchenko, a member of the committee, who I understand is not on video.

The format of the meeting is that we will hear the opening statement and it will be followed by questions and answers with members of our committee. I ask Dr. Merezhko to direct relevant questions to the colleagues he deems most appropriate. I ask members to be concise with their questions to allow all members an opportunity to participate. For the questions to our guests, we allow seven minutes, but that includes the time for both questions and answers. That is to facilitate all members and, possibly, a second round of questions. The witnesses are very welcome. It is a great honour to pass the floor to Dr. Merezhko to make his opening statement.

I thank the Chair and my dear friends. I emphasise that I belong to the friendship group with their country. Even though I have never been to Ireland, I consider myself to be a true friend of it.

I would like to start with an expression of our deepest and most sincere gratitude to the members, their Parliament, their people and their Government for continuing to support us. While we are talking, Ukraine continues to be under attack. Even right now, hundreds of Russian drones are probably attacking cities of Ukraine. From what I have read in the news, half an hour ago a residential building in Lviv, a beautiful Ukrainian city, was hit and at least several people have been severely injured. Under attack are other cities, including Dnipro. We had attacks during the night and now we have them during the day. This is the reality we are living in. Maybe it is inconceivable that something like this is happening in the middle of Europe in the 21st century, but it is the reality. That is why Ireland's position and support of Ukraine are so important for us.

I thank the committee for the opportunity to address it today and for the continued attention paid by the Irish Parliament to the situation in my country, Ukraine. I express our sincere appreciation to Ireland and the Irish people for their consistent and principled support since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion. We highly value Ireland's firm position in support of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, its engagement with the EU's sanctions policy, its humanitarian assistance and its ongoing political support at international level. We are also grateful for Ireland's support to Ukrainians who have found temporary shelter there.

Ukraine has been resisting Russian aggression for 12 years. For five of those years, we have been defending our country against a full-scale invasion, which is a genocidal war against the Ukrainian nation. This past winter has been one of the most difficult in our whole history. Through relentless attacks and the creation of harsh conditions, Russia has deliberately targeted our critical infrastructure. In our apartments, it was cold, sometimes 5°. We did not have electricity, power or heating. The good news is that we have managed to survive. Now it is spring, so it feels much better right now.

Russia continues its deliberate and systematic attacks against Ukrainian cities and civilian infrastructure. Every day, missiles and drones strike homes, schools, hospitals and energy facilities. These are not random acts of war; they are part of a calculated strategy to terrorise civilians and break the resilience of the Ukrainian state. The truth is that on the battlefield, Putin has failed. He is waging war against the civilian population of Ukraine in a desperate, futile attempt to pressure us and terrorise us into submission. The humanitarian consequences are difficult and profound. By targeting critical infrastructure, Russia is deliberately creating conditions of hardship for millions. Children, women and the elderly, many living far from the front line, bear the heaviest burden.

We are grateful to our international partners for their continued support in restoring Ukraine's energy system. I would like to express our particular appreciation to Ireland for its €25 million contribution to the Ukraine Energy Support Fund earlier this year. This support is vital for sustaining our economy, public services and daily life.

Ukraine's defence forces are defending not only our independence and territorial integrity but also the very principles of international law and the rules-based order that underpins peace and security in Europe. The outcome of this war will not be confined to Ukraine. It will determine whether aggression will once again be tolerated, borders can be changed by force and international law will prevail. The truth is that we want peace but we do not want appeasement, because appeasement would mean the surrender of Ukraine and the extermination of the whole Ukrainian nation. In Bucha and Irpin, we saw what can happen to us if we surrender. This is why we have no choice but to continue to fight.

Ukraine has never been, and will never be, an obstacle to peace. The only obstacles to peace are Russia and Putin. We consistently seek a diplomatic solution to restore a comprehensive, just and lasting peace. We are ready for an immediate, unconditional and comprehensive ceasefire. We have agreed to the initial idea of US President Trump. I do not understand why, at a certain moment, he decided to abandon his initial plan and come up with the so-called 28-point – basically Russian – plan.

Our red lines remain unchanged. These include respect for territorial integrity and sovereignty, the right to choose alliances, and no limitations on defence capabilities. We are a sovereign state and want to be treated just like any other sovereign state on this planet. An agreement on security guarantees for Ukraine must precede any agreement to end the war. These guarantees address the fundamental questions of how long peace will truly last and how to prevent the war from recurring. In my opinion, the only reliable security guarantee remains the same: NATO membership.

The current decisive period requires the utmost mobilisation of diplomatic efforts by all international partners to restore a comprehensive, just and lasting peace for Ukraine. Ukraine is committed to ensuring the success of the diplomatic process and maintaining a constructive approach across all tracks – humanitarian, military and political. We are grateful to the American side for working tirelessly to create the conditions necessary for effective diplomacy and a genuine end to the war. We believe real opportunities to end the war with dignity still exist. The world's ability to pressure the aggressor could significantly help ensure that comprehensive, just and lasting peace is restored. We count on the next meeting to be organised very soon.

Meanwhile, Russia continues to obstruct the peace process. In fact, Putin is using negotiations for only one purpose. His goal is to buy time to continue to destroy us and to avoid or dodge sanctions imposed by President Trump. Each of Russia's attacks against Ukraine undermines international efforts to bring the war to an end. Ukraine remains fully constructive in diplomacy, while Russia continues to rely on violence and the deliberate suffering of civilians.

The international community must act now to ensure accountability, increase pressure on the aggressor and restore a comprehensive, just and lasting peace. There cannot be true peace or global security if an aggressor is not punished and is rewarded with concessions of any kind, including, of course, territorial concessions. Sanctions on Russia, stable and consistent support for Ukraine and strengthening our defence together all work for true peace.

We consider Ireland's future Presidency of the Council of the European Union an important opportunity to strengthen European unity and support Ukraine further. We hope that during Ireland's Presidency, particular attention will be paid to maintaining strong political, economic and security support for Ukraine, strengthening sanctions pressure on Russia and advancing Ukraine's European integration.

For Ukraine, it is especially important that the EU accession negotiations continue to move forward with clear political commitment from all member states. Ukraine’s accession path is also supported through enhanced parliamentary co-operation between the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and the European Parliament. This co-operation is implemented under the memorandum of understanding signed in 2023, which provides a solid institutional framework for strengthening the parliamentary dimension of our European integration process. This format allows the European side to remain closely informed about developments in Ukraine, while enabling the Ukrainian side to stay informed about ongoing legislative and policy developments within the EU.

Importantly, the memorandum of understanding also provides for co-operation with the national parliaments of EU member states on accession-related matters. It explicitly refers to supporting the work of the Ukraine-EU parliamentary association committee, PAC, and its aspiration to engage with national parliaments to ensure a proper institutional framework for the smooth accession process. In this regard, I would encourage the Irish Parliament to co-operate with the PAC to support Ukraine’s accession process.

I would also highlight the importance of interparliamentary co-operation. National parliaments play a key role in sustaining international solidarity with Ukraine and in shaping long-term policies of support for our country. We value the co-operation between the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and the Parliament of Ireland and look forward to further strengthening our parliamentary dialogue, including on foreign policy, European integration and Ukraine's future recovery and reconstruction. We encourage the Parliament of Ireland to support Ukraine by advancing initiatives at the national level and in international parliamentary fora, in particular the EU Parliament, Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, OSCE, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe-----

We have lost that connection. We are going to suspend briefly and hope we will get the connection back.

We have re-established contact with Dr. Merezhko. He may resume.

If my dear friends only knew how frustrating it is when something like that happens because I do not know at which point we lost our contact but I will try to be brief. I will try to be laconic and I will-----

You were talking about the importance of the relationship with the European Union.

Yes. The truth is, I firmly believe that we must join the European Union as soon as possible. I am not sure whether it is realistic but we should strive to reach this goal and put the bar as high as next year. The truth is, for us it is a matter of our security. Even more than that, it is a matter of our survival as a nation, because if we join the European Union as soon as possible, it will mean a strategic defeat for Putin. It will also give a huge boost to the morale in our country because to fight for more than four years of full-scale invasion and 12 years of war is extremely difficult. However, we have no choice. We continue to fight no matter what. We see Ireland as our close friend and we know that we can count on Ireland. With regard to Ukrainian accession to EU membership, I ask the members of the committee to please continue supporting us, especially in light of Ireland's future Presidency of the EU.

I thank Dr. Merezhko. Next we will hear contributions from members, each of whom will have seven minutes. I suggest they stick to the allotted time so that everybody can contribute and we ensure we have a second round of questions. Both Houses of the Oireachtas are represented on this committee, by Deputies and Senators, respectively. When I call members, they may indicate whether they are a Government, Opposition or Independent Deputy or Senator. I call Senator Patricia Stephenson.

I thank Dr. Merezhko. To situate myself politically and provide a context, I am a Senator with the Social Democrats, which is an Opposition party. It would be great to hear more from the witnesses about the impact of sanction regimes not being respected. The US has lifted its sanctions on oil over the past two weeks because of its illegal war in Iran. This has bolstered the economy of Russia, which will encourage Russia to carry out further violence like the horrific violence Dr. Merezhko outlined. We followed the bombing of Lviv on the news today. How has the lifting of sanctions been received by the Ukrainian Government and society? To me, it seems like a slap in the face given all of the resistance efforts that Ukraine has made over the last few years.

Today, a story broke that an Irish company is producing alumina that is being sold to Russia to create weapons. It would be interesting to hear the views of the witnesses on the lack of respect being shown to sanctions. In this particular case, alumina is not part of the sanctions regime. Do we need to see an increase in what are considered by the EU to be sanctionable materials in order that we can turn off the tap that allows Russia to fuel itself?

Are there plans for a special tribunal? It is hard to imagine accountability when Ukraine is in the depths of this awful illegal war that has been forced on it. Russia and the United States have sanctioned the International Criminal Court in an attempt to weaken the ICC, which would obviously be a great place to see accountability take place. I am interested in hearing the thoughts of the witnesses on that.

Those are great questions. On sanctions, sometimes President Trump, with all due respect, zigzags in his foreign policy and sometimes he does the right thing, for which we are tremendously grateful. By that I mean he has made the right decision to sanction two Russian oil companies. It was a great move because there is only one path to peace. This involves, first, strengthening Ukraine's army by providing military assistance and necessary weapons, including those that allow us to carry out deep strikes in Russian territory and destroy Russian military targets. Second, Russia must be deprived of its oil and gas revenues because Putin will only stop on one condition, that is, if he runs out of money. He receives money from selling Russian oil, gas and other commodities. To stop the war we need to cut off this lifeline to Putin. That is why, when our American friends discuss the temporary lifting of sanctions against Russia, we say it is a big mistake. First, it will give billions of US dollars to Putin to continue to kill us, despite all the negotiations. Second, it would set a dangerous precedent because Putin will feel emboldened and view it as acquiescence and approval. It will give him confidence that he is right in killing us. That is why, from a political, moral and economic point of view, any lifting of sanctions against Russia would be a huge mistake and will cost the lives of Ukrainian civilians.

On accountability, if we want peace and security, the aggressor and perpetrator should be punished. Otherwise, humankind does not have any future. I am an international lawyer and think in terms of international law. At the moment, there is only one legal mechanism which allows justice to be brought for Russian war crimes, and that is the ICC. The United States was involved in the creation of this extremely important international court. I disagree with any kind of sanctions against the ICC. They undermine global justice and, in the final analysis, global security. They are a huge mistake and I am against them.

Since the ICC in this particular case does not have jurisdiction over the crime of aggression committed by Russia, to guarantee accountability and responsibility we need to create a special tribunal for the crime of aggression. We value very highly Ireland's support for such a tribunal. It is extremely important for all countries because it would send a very strong signal and would be a deterrent against potential aggressors all over the world.

I studied the history of the Nuremberg trials. It took three months to create the Nuremberg trials and, if I am not mistaken, they functioned for just nine months, so they were very quick. I hope that somehow we will manage to speed up the process of creating a special tribunal on the crime of aggression. We need to do that as soon as possible.

Dr. Merezhko has given a general answer on crimes. The other question asked by the Senator remains unanswered. I will allow her to make a brief comment.

What would Dr. Merezhko like to see done about the alumina being exported from Ireland to Russia? It is obviously being used by the Russians for their armaments industry.

My answer is simple. Russia should be totally isolated, both economically and politically. It uses sports, culture and the economy as tools of war. Russia weaponises everything and that is why it should be totally isolated in all respects, including in this case.

I am a backbench Deputy from a Government party, a former speaker of this Parliament and a good friend of the speaker of the Ukrainian Parliament, Ruslan Stefanchuk. I ask Dr. Merezhko to please convey my best regards to him.

I acknowledge the contribution that Ukrainian citizens have been making to the economy and society in Ireland since they came to live among us. We are privileged to have them. Their contribution has been immense. I salute the Ukrainian ambassador in Dublin, H.E. Larysa Gerasko, who is well known to every Member of Parliament here and ensures at all times that Irish parliamentarians are kept up to speed with exactly what is happening on the ground in Ukraine.

I will raise a couple of key areas to focus on. We understand the sanctions are being circumvented in some respects. Will the witnesses talk to us about that and outline what we can do here in Europe and in Ireland to ensure the sanctions are effective and fully implemented?

In terms of EU membership, Ireland is committed to seeing Ukraine advance to full membership. Do the witnesses have thoughts on whether something could be done in the short term and during Ireland's Presidency of the EU to expedite associate membership in order to get the ball rolling and draw Ukraine ever closer to the European Union?

Dr. Merezhko mentioned NATO. If I were him, or anyone debating this whole issue, I would not say anything about NATO because many people are of the view that NATO, its association with Ukraine and Ukraine's quite legitimate ambition to join NATO were used by Putin as an excuse for the monstrous intervention we have seen over the last number of years. I would, therefore, stop talking about NATO.

My final question is about reconstruction. We know a lot about the Marshall Plan in this part of the world.

In the witnesses' opinion, is it too early to begin to talk about the reconstruction of their country? I would think there might be benefit at this stage in bringing together international experts, including financiers, to look at how we might assist Ukrainians in reconstructing their country as a full member of the European Union.

It is absolutely imperative that the monster that is Putin and his puppet regime in the State Duma are not allowed to defeat Ukraine. The courage of the Ukrainian people is manifest but we would be failing in our responsibilities as democrats if we did not defend democracy to the nth degree by ensuring Putin is defeated. We all know that if he defeats Ukraine, his march will not stop there.

I will try to quickly respond to each important question. With regard to sanctions, we now have the 20th package of sanctions from the EU. That is important but we should move gradually forward. Our goal, as I said, should be total isolation of the aggressor. Right now, we need to deprive Putin of his oil revenues. The shadow fleet, for example, is important to tackle. We also need secondary sanctions against those countries and firms that buy Russian oil and gas, thereby feeding and providing a lifeline to the Russian war machine. By that I mean Chinese and Indian companies. President Trump was trying, at least in the beginning, to do something about that, for which I am grateful to him.

The Deputy asked what can be done in practical terms regarding EU membership. Any move forward towards our joining the EU is already a victory for us. The so-called first cluster of negotiations should be opened. It is tremendously important to do so as soon as possible. We had the Revolution of Dignity in the name of our European prospects because we feel we belong to the European family and we want to join the European Union. That is why any progress made along this path, with Ireland's support, advice and help, is tremendously important for our people.

Regarding NATO, the truth is we cannot stop talking about NATO membership for the very simple reason that it is the only reliable guarantee of our security. I do not believe in other security guarantees. I know that the countries that are member states of NATO are safe, even if they are small European countries and even if they border with the monstrosity that is the genocidal Russian empire. We cannot stop talking about the only reliable guarantee of our security and survival, which is NATO membership. We hear from time to time that it is off the table. We heard that before in regard to F-16s and different kinds of weaponry. However, we have no right to give up on this for ourselves. We continue to be stubborn in this regard.

I absolutely agree with the Deputy that it is never too early to talk about reconstruction. We live under bombardments but there are countries like Estonia, for example, that have come to one of our oblasts. Denmark tried to help Mykolaiv. That sends a very strong and powerful signal of solidarity and support to our people during the war. It gives hope to people that we are not alone, that others are trying to help us, they believe in us and our future and they will help with the process of rebuilding and reconstruction even under bombardments. It is a tremendously important issue and, again, Ireland can be one of the leaders in this regard.

The next speaker on the list is Senator Ahearn but he has indicated he will allow Deputy Brennan to take the slot.

I may have to leave the meeting early, so I am grateful to Senator Ahearn. I concur with Deputy Ó Fearghaíl's comments in terms of the contribution of the Ukrainian people to Ireland, which has been simply incredible. One case study is the small village of Courtown, which is located just outside my town. A young man called Vladimir Kovalchuk came there with his mother and younger sister. His father is still on the front line in Ukraine. He started working in a small bed and breakfast facility there, worked his way up and now he owns it. He is making a huge contribution to the social fabric of that town. The same thing has been replicated in towns and villages throughout Ireland. That must be acknowledged here today.

I am very interested to hear about the consular assistance the ambassador is providing here in Ireland and the types of cases she encounters. I am not asking for names or anything like that but I would like to know what sorts of issues Ukrainian people living in Ireland bring to her.

I am concerned about the current status of the nuclear power plant in Ukraine. It is the biggest nuclear plant in Europe, which is worrying in the event of anything major happening. I read that the power lines have been disconnected in the past few days. That is ominous in its suggestion that worse could happen.

Among all the nations in the world that have suffered, Ireland would be very prominent. We have been there and we have been through crises. We found a solution only by getting together around a table. I do not want to be naive in asking this question but do the witnesses ever see themselves sitting around a table with the Russians? That is the only way a crisis or a war will be resolved. Following on from that, will the witnesses outline Ukraine's current relationship with the US? I apologise for having so many questions.

I thank the Deputy for his truly important questions. With regard to sitting down around a table, Ireland has a different experience in terms of round tables. We have had such discussions with Russia. I was deputy head of the Ukraine delegation to the trilateral contact group. I know what it is like to negotiate with Russians. It is totally useless because they do not believe in international treaties, compromises or agreements. They weaponise everything. When Richard Nixon was asked whether Russians can be trusted, he said he did not trust them because they are liars and cheaters and they stick to an agreement only as long as it is in their interests. This is my subjective point of view, of course, not an official point of view, but it makes no sense to negotiate with someone who, in the past, has violated all the agreements possible, who is obsessed with the desire to kill us and who will agree only to a so-called compromise that will allow him to kill us later. It makes no sense; let us be realists about this.

Regarding the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, someone has counted that during the full-scale war against Ukraine, Putin and his subordinates have threatened to use nuclear weapons - it was nuclear blackmail - more than 100 times. Russia is a true nuclear terrorist. That is why it is so dangerous to let Russians keep the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in their hands and under their occupation. They have already tried to shell it and make different kinds of provocations. They can use it. Zaporizhzhia is the biggest nuclear power plant in the whole of Europe.

If something like that happens to it because of Russian provocation, it will be a catastrophe. It will be bigger than Chernobyl. It will be a huge catastrophe. That is why it is in the interests of humankind to do everything to return this nuclear power plant under Ukrainian control and the control of international institutions.

I see that my colleague, Dr. Lisa Yasko, has joined us. I would also like to give her a chance.

Dr. Yasko is very welcome. She has just over a minute to answer the previous question but we will be continuing on from there.

I thank my colleagues. I am sorry; I was really trying to join but, for technical reasons, it was very hard to connect. To answer this question, I am also a member of different delegations, together with Dr. Merezhko. We are working not only on many human rights issues but also on international law. What we have seen during the past weeks is that the focus on any peace negotiations with Russia really decreased. We understand why: because of Iran. It looks as if society in Ukraine does not really wait for any news anymore. We were sceptical before. We did not believe there would be any results of the peace negotiations but now it looks as if there is absolute silence.

I do not know if the committee had a chance to cover the fact that in the past 20 to 30 minutes, there was a huge attack on Vinnytsia and Lviv. There are churches and buildings under fire. There was a massive attack on Ukraine in the past four hours. This is the result and there are a lot of cities on fire right now. I am sure members will see it on the news. We see from our side that there is no certainty on any possible timing. If there was some possible feeling in the sense that the Americans can speed things up, it is not relevant any more at this stage unfortunately.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. I welcome our guests and give a special welcome to my colleague, Ms Gerashchenko, who sits beside me at the Council of Europe. We sit near each other at the Council of Europe and she is a very articulate and excellent performer there. I do not know if she can hear me properly. I also join the former speaker of our Parliament in saluting the bravery of the Ukrainian people. That merits repeating.

I will ask the first two questions together because they are related. The witnesses might identify for the Irish public listening what they have been doing to improve Ukraine's chances of accession to the European Union. We know Ukraine has dealt with some high-level corruption but we would like the witnesses to explain, in as short a time as they can so I can put some other questions, what Ukraine is doing about making it easier for us to get it in there, which is the Irish position. Second, related to that, what can we do during the Irish Presidency? Apart from advancing Ukraine's accession, what other practical steps would the witnesses envisage us being able to take to assist them during the Irish Presidency? Could they take those questions first?

I am glad the Senator has raised the issue of our struggle against high-level corruption. Interestingly, sometimes when people see examples of this struggle, this fight against high-level corruption, they think, "Okay, we are dealing with a corrupt state". In reality, this is an indication that we are very serious about fighting against corruption. Thanks to our President and also our Parliament, we have created anti-corruption infrastructure that is absolutely independent. In Ukraine now, no one is above the law. Anyone can be brought to justice on the charges of corruption, including members of Parliament. We have had cases like that and for members of the Government and so on. No one is above the law and this is a sign of a healthy society. It is a sign we are serious and we are fighting seriously against corruption. You cannot imagine something like that, for example, in Russia or in many other states - that everyone can be brought to justice no matter how high-level he or she is.

In practical terms, with regard to EU accession, we need the members' support, first of all, to start by opening the first plaster. I am not an expert on EU law; we have a special, separate committee on that. Its members would be more informed and more knowledgeable about that. For me, we have strong political will. We, including our Parliament, President and Government, have strong political will to do everything to adapt our legal system to the acquis and to do everything we can, and we are doing this.

I thank Dr. Merezhko. There is another question coming from the Senator.

Could the witnesses give me an assessment of where they see American initiatives now? I know America is distracted by Iran but how do the witnesses assess what America is trying to do now and have there been any recent American initiatives in regard to a peace process?

What can be done to revert to Mr. Trump's initial idea about an unconditional ceasefire to deliver and follow through on his promises? He said very distinctly that he had a plan regarding an unconditional ceasefire and if Ukraine or Russia disagreed, there would be "severe consequences". Ukraine has agreed to that unconditional ceasefire. That is the only way the war can be stopped. He should just follow through on his promises. I would like to emphasise that for us, the United States remains our close partner and friend. Luckily, it is a democracy and it has strong democratic institutions. We enjoy bipartisan support in the Congress. American public opinion is also firmly on the side of Ukraine and we value very highly our American friends.

Given that the Centre for Strategic and International Studies has assessed that Russia has lost 1.2 million persons in the war, does Dr. Merezhko think the Russian public will go on accepting that? Surely Russia will not be able to go on with that and will not want to go on to further wars beyond Ukraine. At what point does he think the Russian public will cease to accept it? I see Dr. Merezhko's colleagues suggesting that there is no time they would not but what is his assessment?

Dr. Merezhko has one minute. Can he hear us?

Because of interruptions, unfortunately, I have missed the question. Maybe Dr. Yasko can answer this.

I will say it really quickly. If the Russians have lost 1.2 million people in the war, how long can they go on with that and how long will the Russian public accept that? How long will the Russian system-----

I can answer.

Unfortunately, the screen was frozen for a couple of minutes.

I will ask Dr. Yasko to answer the question because I think she heard it fully.

Yes, I heard it. Unfortunately, Russia is huge. The question of the number of people does not really matter for them. Yes, it creates problems for mobilisation for Putin. We are aware of that. This is what our intelligence shows but still, the only way the Russian people will feel that they do not like this war is when it will not be pleasant for them economically.

At this stage, there are signs that the Russian economy is not in good shape but it is still very far from the moment when the real war machine can stop. We always advocate for more sanctions that target the Russian war machine because we need to make sure they are not able to produce weapons, they will not have people to produce weapons or they will be scared. We are not there yet.

On the reconstruction of Ukraine, what are the steps and what can we do in that space?

I will ask Dr. Yasko to answer that because it has been asked already.

We have a number of reconstruction and recovery conferences at which we consider the priorities, starting with infrastructure and energy questions and ending with rebuilding the cities. On a personal level I want to emphasise human recovery. In any programme of assistance or co-operation, it will be very valuable to cover human recovery with health, education and culture. Every Ukrainian family has felt a lot of damage from the war on them. We need completely new societies with inclusion and a lot of new things. Many people are still in very good resilient shape but that does not mean the whole infrastructure covers all the education and health needs we have, unfortunately.

I thank the witnesses very much for making the time. I am sure they are very busy. We appreciate the time they have given. I condemn the attack on Lviv. Reports are coming through that a number of people have been injured. It demonstrates the threats again. I acknowledge the work of the ambassador who has done an excellent job in the past number of years in articulating the position of the Ukrainian Government and people here in Ireland in the media and in these institutions.

My first question relates to the issue of the abducted children. Estimates of the number of Ukrainian children abducted by Russia vary between 20,000 and 35,000. The ambassador recently organised an excellent screening of the film "Children in the Fire", which tells the story of some of those children. While some of them have now returned, thankfully, there are many thousands still in Russia. The difficulties their families will have in ensuring they are reunited are considerable. Will the witnesses comment on the work the Ukrainian Parliament is doing to ensure that this remains on the agenda and that, regardless of whether the war continues for another period or ends shortly, these children can be reunited with their families?

My second question relates to the issue of sanctions. The Irish foreign policy of neutrality means that assistance for Ukraine is for civil and humanitarian matters. That is a position we support but it is also our view that well-targeted sanctions can have an impact. The US Government has reduced its sanctions in relation to gas and oil. Obviously, that is very disappointing and creates a problem. European countries have been slow to sanction the Russian atomic agency, Rosatom. Deputy Brennan highlighted the very dangerous situation in relation to nuclear plants in Ukraine. The ability of those at the top of Rosatom, and their families, to profit from this agency is considerable.

Finally, we have many people from Ukraine here in Ireland. They are making a terrific contribution to Irish society. I imagine there are many Ukrainians who are internally displaced. I refer to people from the occupied parts of Ukraine who are now in other parts of Ukraine. Will the witnesses comment on their situation? How does the Ukrainian Government ensure they are supported?

With regard to the children, it is our pain. We know that more than 20,000 Ukrainian children have been abducted by Russia. With each passing month - not year - the truth is that Russia might be using these children against their own motherland in the war against Ukraine or in future wars against Ukraine or other countries. That is why it is so dangerous. We are doing our best. We are trying to create platforms and broad coalitions such as Bring Kids Back. Dr. Yasko may inform the committee about what is going on in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe with regard to this issue. When we use instruments of parliamentary diplomacy - for example, when we communicate with our colleagues in Qatar and other states - we constantly raise these children. It is helpful to bring at least some of the children back but the truth is that it is extremely difficult.

Rosatom is another important issue. It should definitely be sanctioned because it provides the necessary money for Russia to continue the war against Ukraine.

Unfortunately on this topic I am far from being optimistic. As our chair said, we have different initiatives. The results are very small because the numbers are huge. Russia shows no sign of changing this position. It is bringing those children who have grown up into the Russian Army. Very often, the problem from our side is that we are not able to track where these children are. All of the success we have managed to achieve has usually involved mediators from third countries such as Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. Usually, we manage to exchange or bring only a few children back. These are individual cases. Unfortunately this is what we will face during the next generations, probably. I am quite pessimistic about Russia bringing children back any time in the next few years, even if the magic happens and there is a ceasefire. Russia will never bring children back. This is our big pain. Also, we must not forget about the thousands of prisoners of war. They are also used as a big tool to put pressure. There are many humanitarian questions that need to be tackled but we have managed to have some progress. While on the military questions Russia is not able to make any steps, on the humanitarian questions sometimes with pressure we manage to have some success.

I also asked about people from the occupied territories in the east of the country who are internally displaced within Ukraine. Perhaps some of them have family members in the rest of Ukraine, but others may not. How are they supported by the Ukrainian Government?

We have a special programme to support them but of course our resources are limited because of the war. It is another argument. For example, when Hungary is blocking €90 billion, it has a negative impact on the programme supporting our internally displaced persons. I cannot forget my first visit to Lviv right after the full-scale invasion. When I went to the centre for these people, I saw lots of families who had fled the war in the eastern part of Ukraine. I recall vividly seeing children's toys on mattresses - it was the whole world for these children who came with their families.

It was so heartbreaking to observe these people who had been going through terrible conditions and who had fled their homes. We have a special group of members of Parliament who do everything to support internally displaced people. We are working on this. We are in constant contact with our Government trying to come up with solutions, sometimes creative solutions, to help them. Of course, again, a lot depends on material economic assistance from our partners in the European Union.

I apologise for missing the start of the session. I was speaking in the Chamber. I will group my questions and I thank the witnesses for speaking with us today. I will follow up on the big report in The Irish Times today about the Aughinish Alumina plant in County Limerick which supplies vast amounts of raw materials to Russian aluminium smelters, which is then purchased by dozens of arms companies that make weapons for Russia's war in Ukraine. Were the witnesses aware of this plant in particular and its links with the Russian arms industry? Are they aware of any other Irish company that supplies raw materials or finished products that find their way into the Russian war machine? I ask the witnesses to comment on this. Are the witnesses aware of any lobbying the Irish Government has done on behalf of Rusal, the company that owns Aughinish Alumina and Russian smelters, to keep it out of the sanctions on Russia?

My next question is on the Russian shadow fleet. It has gained some attention in Ireland due to its activity, particularly along the western coast. Will the witnesses articulate the extent to which the Russian shadow fleet operates and how it supports the Russian war machine in Ukraine? Will they supply details on this?

If there is time, I ask the witnesses to answer my next question. Dr. Merezhko mentioned how NATO is the only reliable partnership that will protect Ukraine. These were his words. How reliable does he feel the NATO partnership is now, given that we have a number of NATO members exiting the Ottawa Convention and putting landmines along their eastern borders in the Baltics and in Poland? Donald Trump has tried to turn NATO into an offensive pact in relation to what is going on in the Middle East. He is asking for NATO help, which is being refused by other NATO members with regard to the offensive war he started in the Middle East. Does Dr. Merezhko think NATO is as reliable a defensive organisation as perhaps he may have thought it might have been at the start of this war?

I remind Dr. Merezhko that because he is not in the building he does not have the parliamentary privilege we do here. I have known him quite a while and he answers directly so I am not sure it will deter him but I do remind him.

I will try to be brief and I will start with the last question on NATO. Ukraine had to withdraw from the Ottawa Convention on landmines. We had no choice. For us, landmines provide effective protection and are a deterrent against Russian advances on the battlefield. They protect us, unfortunately. It is a bitter and sad reality of war but that is why we had to withdraw from the Ottawa Convention. We understand our allies and that for them it is also important. As for NATO, we continue to believe in NATO because it has proved itself as the most effective defence alliance in human history and it is true. With regard to war in Iran, I am not sure about it because I know that NATO is based on Article 5, which activates only in cases of external attack against a member.

With regard to the shadow fleet, there was a recent article in The Economist about this problem. For us one of the biggest problems right now is how to tackle and stop Russia using the shadow fleet. Unfortunately, the attempt to lift sanctions creates additional opportunities for Russian shadow fleet. This is why it is all-important to unite and finally put an end to Russia using the shadow fleet to avoid sanctions.

I have not read the article in The Irish Times that Deputy Smith mentioned but I am aware of the problem. Unfortunately, in some European countries there are firms that put their interests over principles and over legislation, and which are helping Russia to avoid sanctions. It is totally unacceptable, which is why we hope the committee will take this into consideration and will do everything it can to stop this from happening.

To put it in context, this article is not appearing on page 23 or 24 of the newspaper, it is a huge article. It will have an impact on the Irish public, who will be aghast at the findings that large amounts of raw materials from this country end up in the Russian war machine. It will provoke further questions as to whether there are other Irish companies that export to Russia products which ultimately end up, whether wittingly or unwittingly, in the Russian war machine. Any pressure or question the witnesses have for the Irish Government and the Irish State would be appreciated on this matter.

One of our Ministers has said the Government is working on the reduction and eventual elimination of the State's accommodation programme for people fleeing the war in Ukraine. Do the witnesses have any message for the Irish State? The Irish people have done an unbelievable job in holding out the hand of friendship and accommodation for people fleeing war in Ukraine. Now that we are so many years into this war, do the witnesses have a message for the Irish Government on its State accommodation programme for people fleeing the war in Ukraine?

I have only one message, which is a message of gratitude for hosting and helping these people and protecting them and their lives. It is tremendously important. At the same time, of course we understand that we want people to come back and help us to rebuild our country. It is tremendously important for us. We are grateful for everything Ireland is doing. It is a good example for other countries. It is a true sign of friendship and solidarity with us. I want to introduce our colleague, a representative of the opposition, Ms Iryna Gerashchenko. I want to give her the floor.

I thank the committee for our discussion. Today is a very difficult day, as is every day when we have a Russian attack. There were attacks on civilians in Lviv, Vinnytsia, Dnipro, Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk. Yesterday I was in the east of Ukraine and it is very difficult to see the destruction of our infrastructure. Russia now wants to attack civilian cities. It is very important to understand the situation and form new sanctions and a new anti-Putin coalition.

I thank Ireland for its support for Ukraine. Ireland will have the Presidency of the Council of the European Union and for us it is very important to have military and humanitarian support, and support for our infrastructure. My colleagues have given information on the security situation. I will provide information on the humanitarian situation. Ukraine now has a very difficult situation as our territory has problems with mines. There is also a situation with our children. We know that 20,000 Ukrainian children have experienced illegal deportation to Russia. For us it is very important to work together on this problem. There is also a situation with our prisoners, as thousands of Ukrainian people, including civilians and military, are prisoners in Russian prisons.

Russia tortures Ukrainian prisoners. For example, 23 Ukrainian journalists are now prisoners. It is very important for us to work together to pressure Russia to liberate Ukrainian prisoners. I thank the committee for its position and support. Russia has destroyed European unity through the situation with Hungary and Orbán and for us, it is very important to have a unified position on Ukraine. I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach.

The next person to speak is Deputy Shay Brennan. After he is finished, I will ask the ambassador to make a contribution.

Apologies for being late. I was in the Dáil Chamber where the Taoiseach was taking questions on his recent meeting with the coalition of the willing. The topic in question was Ukraine. It is very evident coming out of there that despite what is going on in the world, Ukraine is still very much top of the agenda and very much a priority. The reason I apologise for being late is that if any of the questions I will ask have been asked before, just indicate rather than waste time. I can always review the recording later.

My first question is about the conflict in the Middle East. Obviously, that throws up some problems and there are two in particular that I want to talk about. The first is with the air defence missiles that Ukraine has been using to defend itself. I think 600 have been used to date. The US alone has used 1,600 of these in the opening couple of weeks of the Iranian conflict. I wonder about the supply of those missiles. Are the witnesses concerned about supply, particularly insofar as it will affect Ukraine's ability to defend against air attacks.

My second question is still on the Middle East topic and is about oil prices. For two reasons, Russia benefits from this. The first is that oil prices have gone up substantially globally. Russia had budgeted for about $40 a barrel and was probably struggling to even achieve that. With the temporary waiver of the sanctions that allows India to buy oil from Russia, that gives it an outlet. Ural oil is now trading at the same level as crude oil. As a result, Russia is probably taking in three times what it was taking in and that is substantial because it gives it about €370 million per day. President Zelenskyy has estimated that this will run to about €10 billion. That €10 billion could be directly used to fund the war effort. On that statement, of course that €10 billion has an impact. How material do the witnesses see that impact being? Is it a minor impact or something that could significantly change the outcome if intervention or external support is not forthcoming?

I will be very quick with my final question. We know that Hungary is having a parliamentary election on 12 April. I believe it is quite a tight race between the incumbent, Orbán, and the opposition leader, Magyar. Orbán is clearly very much against Ukrainian accession to the EU. Magyar's position is a bit more nuanced. In his manifesto, he has pledged to hold a referendum on the topic. That opens the door somewhat. How important is the outcome of that election? I assume it is being watched quite closely. I am curious to hear the witnesses' thoughts on how much of an impact that will have on Ukraine's likely accession to the EU.

First, with regard to the Deputy's analysis of the influence of the Middle East war on oil prices, he is absolutely correct. Our President has mentioned $10 billion. It is the quickest profit Russia can make. For us, it means more weaponry for Russia. It means more deaths in our civilian population because Russia will have more capabilities and opportunities to kill us. At the same time, we see that €90 billion is stuck because Hungary is blocking it. We see this difference and of course, we are raising this issue.

Iran was one of the biggest supporters of Russia. Iran has provided 57,000 drones to Russia, along with hundreds of ballistic missiles, ammunition, military technologies and specialists. That is why it is good news when Russia loses its ally and supporter. It diminishes pressure on us. Of course, the downside is that Russia has more profits. I do not know what the solution could be. The issue of caps is being discussed. It has been suggested that the caps on Russian oil should be decreased. I am not sure about that. I am not a specialist.

As for Hungary, we do not meddle in the election process. We are in favour of democracy in Hungary. No matter who wins, it is important for us that this political party will not be pro-Russian and will support Ukraine. We believe in the wisdom of the Hungarian people, especially taking into consideration their tragic experience of Russian invasion. We hope that they will make the right choice and that our relations will improve because, after all, Hungary is a European country, a member of NATO and a member of the European Union.

Our dear colleague is absolutely right with his analysis of the situation with Russian oil. According to our information, Russia now has $150 million every day to put towards war. For us, it is a catastrophic situation. The Deputy had a question about the election in Ukraine and the referendum in Ukraine. Now, we organise specialise working groups of parliament because we want to change our election code. There are many problems with having a post-martial law election. We want to organise a democratic and transparent election through our military people and internally displaced persons, IDPs, etc. but we have a very difficult position for the majority. I have my issues but we prefer a unified position through elections. The election will happen after martial law. It is not impossible to organise a democratic and transparent election during martial law. It is a Russian scenario and the Russians organised the referendum because we have a red line. Our territorial integrity and sovereignty is a red line for us. It is not normal to organise a referendum and elections during these times. For us, during the peace process, the first question is whether we can get a ceasefire. Today is a very difficult day and every day is a very difficult day. Why would we want to organise an election with Russian missiles and drones landing around us?

The ambassador has been listening for the past hour so I might ask her to make a contribution.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. I want to make a few comments about consular services provided by our embassy, especially in reply to Deputy Brennan who unfortunately has left. We provide a very broad range of consular services for our people and our citizens. The issuing of passports is in highest demand. We are facing many challenges because many Ukrainians still live here and there are just a few consuls.

Another issue for Ukrainians is the ARP programme. The Government intends to decrease the ARP programme. I have requested a meeting with the Department of justice. First, I would like to raise my concern as it is a vulnerable category of people. How will elderly people and those with special needs survive?

Our members of parliament have mentioned the Russian strikes over Ukraine and over the western part. Many people think it is the more safe place but there is no safe place in Ukraine. Our vulnerable categories of people will face many challenges finding accommodation and staying there.

Unfortunately, the Senator and Deputy Smith have left the meeting. They raised the investigation published by The Irish Times about the reported link between alumina produced in Ireland and Russian aluminium used by entities connected to the arms sector, which raises serious concern. Ukraine has consistently warned that gaps in the sanctions regime and export control create opportunities for circumvention. On a few occasions at this committee we have discussed how some components produced by Irish companies are used by Russian drones. These companies do not break sanctions regimes because they are dual use but we are still concerned. We are grateful to Ireland for its strong and consistent support for Ukraine. I am confident the issue of circumventing sanctions and the link between alumina and aluminium in Russia will be investigated and the Government will take all necessary measures to prevent this circumvention. I have no doubt the Government will do its best.

On trade, the export of pharmaceutical goods from Ireland to Russia has increased – I cannot remember by what percent – since last year. These goods are not under the sanctions regime but we have to consider these issues very carefully.

I thank the ambassador. I am the only one who has not spoken yet. First, I welcome our three contributors. I have met the chair a number of times in Ukraine along with some of his colleagues, Lesia Vasylenko, Aliona Shkrum and Dmytro. Please pass on my regards.

I was interested in the contributions. I will ask all my questions in one go. On the dialogue with the US at the moment, is that continuing with the same respect from both sides even though they are involved in other conflicts around the world? Has that type of dialogue changed in the four years? I do not mean changed in the sense that the Administration in America changed but rather whether it has changed in the current Administration over the past year? What is Ukraine’s view on the war in Iran? Many say that the war in Iran is deflecting concentration from what is happening in Ukraine, but from an EU perspective, how we manage our political relationship with the US with regard to the war in Iran is critical. It is clear to see the EU and the UK have distanced themselves from America’s war in Iran. That has not gone down well with America. The obvious fear from a European perspective is that, on any day, the President of the United States could wake up one morning and be so frustrated with the European Union that the obvious card in his hand is to say he will remove all financial or military support from Ukraine, which puts a heavy burden on the EU and European countries to continue the same support at the same level. Have the witnesses or the Ukrainian Government any advice or support for the European Union in how to manage that relationship with America to make sure the focus always remains on the support for Ukraine?

Deputy Ó Fearghaíl raised the topic of the reconstruction of Ukraine. I was there last August. Aliona had become a Minister and had put a request out to EU member states that they would appoint an envoy to Ukraine from each country. When I last checked, ten of the 27 states had appointed an envoy. The reason for it is it speeds up the connection between businesses in Ireland, for example, which are looking to invest in and support the reconstruction of Ukraine. Has the Government written to the Irish Prime Minister seeking for Ireland to appoint an envoy to Ukraine? How many European countries have done that so far?

I agree. We are watching all the events unfolding in the world from the perspective of what consequences it will have on our situation and on Russian aggression in Ukraine and whether or not it is conducive to stopping Russian aggression. From that perspective, the war in Iran is a distraction. Any conflict in the world is a distraction and especially in this situation when there is a rise in oil prices. Therefore it is not in our interests, but at the same time the silver lining is that Russia is losing its close ally, which is good news. In my subjective view, I agree with President Trump on his trying to stop Iran getting access to nuclear weapons. It would be really dangerous for the whole world and for global security. At the same time, we hope it will not distract the American Administration too much from the case of Ukraine. We are concerned that a negotiation process might be put on hold or that it might be paused. Luckily, that has not happened yet.

We believe our European partners, representatives of the European Union, should also be at the negotiating table and participate in the negotiation process. Right now they are the biggest supporter in terms of material economic aid to Ukraine and in terms of military support. They deserve to be part of a negotiation process. As for the United States, we continue to believe in transatlantic solidarity. We are grateful for everything that has been done by our American friends to help us to survive. We are grateful for that. We continue to thank them, including President Trump himself, of course, but we expect more from President Trump. We remain hopeful. We have no right to be pessimistic. We are in a vulnerable position, unfortunately. That is why we have to be diplomatic, respectful, political and strategic when dealing with our friends. Even between friends, as the history of the Second World War illustrates, there can be some disagreements and misunderstandings – that is natural – but we are true friends and remain friends and we should tell the truth to each other. Sometimes we have to insist and be stubborn. Overall, we are lucky that America as a country and its people, including Democrats, Republicans and even the MAGA movement or the majority of them, understand who is the aggressor and who is the victim of the aggression and they are on the side of Ukraine.

I always mention one of my colleagues who has a strong Irish identity. He is an American congressman.

I have noticed that people of Irish origin are also very influential in politics. We would like to rely on this support, on this soft power, your side because you can really make a difference.

The final point I would like to make is that we want to see you in Kyiv. You are welcome at any time to come to Kyiv, to our committee and to the Parliament. We would gladly host you, and we look forward to seeing you soon. I thank the Vice Chair.

Our team, our political group, supports the position of Chancellor Metz. The European Union will need to be at the negotiation table because it is a European security issue and problem. Now the European Union is paying for weapons for Ukraine, etc. For five years, I was a special representative of President Poroshenko in the peace process. I worked on the Minsk humanitarian group and on the Normandy process. We worked very well. I mention the special representative of President Trump. Now I think it is not good. Why? There is not an official of the American people, of the USA, in the peace process. It is Kushner, etc., but we want to have an American official in the peace process. It is very important to have an American position at the peace table but with the European Union. Together there is a strong foundation. However, if we do not have a European Union representative in the peace process, it is a Russian scenario.

The question came up earlier of the 20,000 abducted Ukrainian children. I had an involvement in that question at the Council of Europe, and I have an interest in it. Dr. Yasko was very pessimistic about the outcome there. We were given to understand some progress had been some weeks ago. Would the witnesses comment again on the situation of the abducted children, in practical terms? Where do they think they are located, what steps have been made to get them back, and have any concessions been made on this? Have there been any developments?

Maybe my colleague, Ms Gerashchenko, will add to this. Even top officials in Russia tend to adopt small Ukrainian children. Russia is trying to brainwash the children who have become teenagers. It is trying to send them to those parts of Russia that are distant and far away from Ukraine. Russia is trying to brainwash and teach them to hate their motherland and nation. There are examples of this. For example, the ICC has issued an arrest warrant for the so-called Russian ombudsman, who confessed on camera that she adopted a Ukrainian boy who was initially pro-Ukraine and who had these sentiments and feelings about his motherland. She managed to break his will and destroy his national identity. This is also an example of genocide that has been committed against Ukraine and our children.

Of course we are concerned because with each passing month, the hope is diminishing that they will be brought back. We keep fighting no matter what and we want to send a signal that we will be fighting for each Ukrainian child until he or she is brought back to their motherland. However, we also need the committee's support. The best thing to do is to support Ukraine and accountability in regard to Russian war criminals.

I was going to end with a comment. The abduction of the 20,000 children is one of the most appalling war crimes of this war. It is good the witness came back to the subject because it is very important people watching this around Ireland know about this ghastly crime. I do not think it is in the public space and that is one of the reasons I raised it again. I would appreciate any further information on that.

My colleague, Dr. Oleksandrovych Merezhko, is absolutely right. It is a genocide and Russia is using genocidal practices to identify Ukrainian children. I worked with the Minsk humanitarian group and it knew that in 2013, Russia organised special military camps for Ukrainian children in occupied territories. Russia is using Ukrainian children. In Russia, these children cannot study the Ukrainian language, or in occupied Crimea. It is a very difficult situation. There are genocidal practices. There are problems with special military camps for Ukrainian children in the occupied territories. There are many examples of these war crimes.

It is very useful that we have these briefings on a regular basis. It is something we should commit to for the duration of this struggle, that we meet at least on a sessional basis, with our opposite numbers in the Verkhovna Rada to hear directly from them what is happening, and to be briefed by Ambassador Gerasko. It is important Ukraine knows that we continue to support the people, are concerned about them and are willing to do whatever can be done to advance their case at UN and EU levels and in every other forum where Ireland is represented. The quicker we can encourage this matter to be resolved, the better but it is very hard.

Having listened to our speakers today and having engaged with visitors from Ukraine in the past couple of weeks, it is very hard to find any reason for optimism. Earlier, I referred to the witnesses' courage, the extraordinary courage the leaders and the people of Ukraine have demonstrated. They are also people of enormous commitment, and are capable of huge endurance and perseverance.

Just as they persevere in enduring the monstrous war Putin is inflicting on them, the Ukrainian people can be assured that we will endure and persevere in supporting them in any way we can. We are practical people in Ireland and we want to see meaningful measures taken. The most meaningful of those measures would be to advance in a significant way EU membership for Ukraine. That cannot happen soon enough.

That is the final question. If the witnesses would like to make some final comments, they may do so now.

Dear friends, as I said before, I have not been to your country. I have noticed one peculiar thing. Each time I communicate with my colleagues from Ireland in different places in the world, we understand each other perfectly. I do not know how to explain it. Maybe it is because of similarities in our history or because of similarities in our frame of mind. I do not know but I always feel very close friends with Irish people. Some years ago, after the full scale invasion, the speakers from the Irish Parliament came to our Parliament and I had the honour and pleasure to enjoy conversations with them. One of them said, very wisely, that words do not matter much, actions matter. Ireland is one of the countries that has proved, through its actions, that it is a reliable friend. We are thankful for that and, of course, we want to see more contact between our Parliaments and between our people in Kyiv, at the Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, PACE, and at the OSCE. Please remember that by helping Ukraine, you help to save lives. We are grateful for everything you do. Thank you.

I am not sure if Ms Gerashchenko or Dr. Yasko are still there. We might leave the last contribution to the ambassador.

I just want to add to what our chairman has said. We are very grateful for your support and we count on your Presidency of the EU Council. For us, membership of the EU is vital and crucial. Thank you so much for your attention to the abducted children. It is really our pain. When we say that 20,000 children were abducted, it means that we have confirmation of that and that these are documented cases. Unfortunately, only 2,003 kids have been returned to Ukraine, which is very small percentage of them. It is really a very difficult process. Russian officials announced in the media that over 700,000 Ukrainian children are under the control of the Russian authorities. Can you imagine? We just have 20,000 that are documented cases. We count on your support, both humanitarian support and support in the struggle on the circumvention of the sanctions. Thank you.

I thank the ambassador for all the work she does. I thank our witnesses for appearing before the committee today and for their useful contributions on this extremely important topic. The meeting is adjourned until 14 April when the committee will meet in private session at 3 p.m. and in public session at 3.30 p.m.