We are meeting representatives of the Gaelic Athletic Association for engagement on the importance of social and community infrastructure, and the GAA's recently published report on demographic changes. I understand that the delegation has already presented at the housing committee and the sports committee and is keen to present to our committee. The GAA believes that the issues raised in its report are not confined to one committee, which is why it has made the presentations separately.

I am pleased to welcome from the GAA Dr. Peter Horgan, strategy insights and innovation manager, and Mr. Benny Hurl, chair of the national demographics committee.

Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to the identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

I remind members that they will each be afforded a six-minute speaking slot for questions and answers. The documents have been circulated, although the witnesses may also be using slides on the screen.

I now invite Dr. Horgan to make his opening statement.

I thank the members for the invitation to appear before the committee. The GAA welcomes the opportunity to contribute to this important discussion on infrastructure, housing delivery and the long-term sustainability of communities across Ireland.

We are here today not simply as a sporting organisation but as one of the State’s largest systems of social and community infrastructure. Together with our colleagues, the Ladies' Gaelic Football Association, LGFA, and the Camogie Association, we represent more than 2,300 clubs and over 760,000 members embedded in every part of Ireland. Our clubs are not just places where games are played. They are where communities gather, where volunteering happens, where young people develop identity and belonging, and where integration and well-being are supported. This is why the issues we raise today extend far beyond sport. They go to the heart of how communities function and how they will sustain themselves into the future.

Ireland is currently experiencing profound demographic change. Population growth is increasingly concentrated along the eastern seaboard, in commuter belts and in major urban areas. At the same time, many rural communities are experiencing ageing populations, declining birth rates and shrinking volunteer capacity. These changes are not simply statistical. They are reshaping communities and redefining participation in sport and civic life.

Almost one third of the population now lives in the Dublin commuter belt and over 43% along the eastern seaboard, yet fewer than one fifth of GAA clubs are located there. The result is a clear mismatch between population growth and community infrastructure. In high-growth areas, clubs are oversubscribed, facilities are stretched and volunteers are under increasing pressure. Housing development has outpaced the delivery of sporting and recreational infrastructure. Many clubs are now trying to serve rapidly growing populations without the land or facilities required to do so sustainably. At the same time, many rural clubs face a different challenge of declining player numbers and uncertainty about long-term viability. Our analysis shows that just 50 club catchment areas now account for a quarter of all children aged zero to five year on the whole island of Ireland while 1,000 clubs share only 22% of that cohort. This is no longer simply about rural decline. It is about whether communities, both urban and rural, can sustain participation, volunteering and civic life into the future.

A key point that we want to emphasis is as follows. Gaelic games must be understood as part of Ireland’s social and cultural infrastructure. Independent research that was commissioned by the GAA demonstrates the scale of our contribution to Irish society through volunteering, physical activity, health and well-being, youth development and social cohesion. When the State invests in facilities linked to Gaelic games, it is not simply funding pitches or buildings. It is investing in preventative health, community cohesion and resilient local structures.

Hurling has been recognised by UNESCO as part of Ireland's intangible cultural heritage. It is a living expression of identity, tradition and intergenerational life. If Gaelic games are recognised as cultural infrastructure, then the systems that sustain them must also be recognised as strategically important national infrastructure.

Housing policy sits at the centre of this issue. If rural Ireland is to retain schools, clubs and community life, it must also retain and attract young families. We believe there is merit in examining planned cluster-style housing linked to existing villages and community infrastructure. This is not an argument for uncontrolled one-off development; it is about supporting sustainable settlement patterns that maintain viable communities.

Policies such as town centre first, vacancy regeneration and remote and blended working can all support more balanced population distribution if aligned properly with infrastructure investment. A key principle is this: social and community infrastructure should be planned alongside residential development, not delivered afterwards. If we are serious about sustainable communities, then sports and recreational infrastructure must be treated as essential and not optional within planning.

There is also a clear opportunity for stronger partnership. The GAA, local authorities, planners and Departments are all responding to the same underlying challenges, such as population growth, infrastructure deficits and community sustainability. More integrated planning that is grounded in the demographic evidence can better align housing, infrastructure and community needs.

GAA facilities already function as community hubs in many areas. There is significant potential to expand this role through multi-use community spaces, social enterprise activity, remote working facilities and local service provision. This is particularly important in rural Ireland, where infrastructure often determines whether communities remain viable and connected.

We ask the committee to focus on five priorities: first, recognise sports and recreation infrastructure as essential social infrastructure within national planning; second, ensure mandatory zoned and serviced land for sport and recreation in high-growth areas; third, strengthen alignment between housing delivery, population growth and community infrastructure; fourth, support greater use of shared and dual-use facilities, including schools and community hubs; and fifth, adopt a more whole-of-government approach. Housing, transport, health, sport and community development can no longer be planned in isolation. They must be aligned if communities are to function effectively.

The infrastructure decisions taken over the next decade will shape participation, health and community life for generations. The GAA is not simply highlighting these challenges. We bring evidence, practical solutions and a willingness to work in partnership because this is not simply about sport. It is about what kind of Ireland we choose to build and whether our communities can sustain that future. The success of that future will depend not only on where Ireland grows but also on whether infrastructure, participation, belonging and community grow alongside it. Is féidir linn le chéile.

I thank Dr. Horgan for that presentation. It was very clear and concise and covered many issues that many of us were familiar with from our local areas.

Members have indicated that they wish to speak in the following sequence: Deputy O'Hara, Senator Crowe, Deputy McCormack and Senator Stephenson.

I thank the witnesses for their time today. We all recognise the importance of the GAA in every single community across Ireland. Some of the points presented by the witnesses are very interesting.

Dr. Horgan mentioned some of the challenges facing rural clubs in terms of population decline, including a decline in the number of players. Could he speak just a little more about the impact of that? How many rural clubs are having to merge, for example, because of declining numbers?

I thank the Deputy for the question. The issue, as the Deputy said, is about declining numbers and clubs being unable to field 15 a side on their own. This has happened all across the country in a variety of different clubs but, in a sense, the GAA is lucky in that our existing rules, policies and procedures have slightly insulated us from the major issues so far.

One of the things that we are trying to draw attention to is that where today two clubs might need to come together to form a team, in five years that might be three, in ten years it might be four and in 20 years maybe none at all will be able to field. The example we always give at these types of event is of a minor football game between two teams in south Kerry where five clubs made up one team and three clubs made up the other, so there were eight clubs in one game. This is affecting clubs all across the country.

We have outlined in our documentation our response to this. As a result of our report, we brought two motions to the GAA congress back in February. The first sought to redefine a club to allow those clubs that were most challenged demographically to continue to exist. We do not seek to shut them down. Some 98.5% of the votes were in favour of the motion at the congress.

The second motion was to permit teams of fewer than 15 a side to play at championship level, and that received the support of 97.5%. There was considerable support across the organisation for clubs in this category and also considerable support to make sure that our 1,611 GAA clubs, or the 2,300-plus if we include camogie clubs, could be sustained in the future.

On solutions, Dr. Horgan spoke a little about housing. With regard to rural one-off housing and the new planning guidelines that are coming, what specifically would Dr. Horgan like to see included to support rural clubs?

We were before the housing committee a couple of months ago and were told that 547 settlements are currently closed for development. Very simply, we need those settlements to be open again. One of the ways in which that can be done is through infrastructure. In this regard, we are delighted to be before the infrastructure committee today. Infrastructure means water and electricity. If a person cannot put the light on or flush the toilet, having the ability to plan for a house is not really much good to him or her.

In our opening statement, we said we were not here to advocate for one-off housing, although the one-off housing provision in the planning statement that is coming up is very welcome. We would like to see small clusters of houses. We believe that Uisce Éireann is about to unveil some wastewater modular treatment plants, and that will allow houses to be built.

On local authorities, we would like to see serviced sites provided. That is being done in a number of local authority areas, which is also very welcome. I refer to where small numbers of serviced sites are made available at a discount and provided by the local authorities. If six, eight, ten or 12 houses are permitted in a small rural area, it has the potential to totally transform that area, its club and community. Those are the sorts of thing that we would like to see.

Absolutely. That is a very important point. In my county, 70% of the land we have zoned for housing cannot be built on because of the infrastructure issues Mr. Hurl spoke about. That puts it into perspective.

Reference was made to issues related to a lack of sports infrastructure in communities. Specifically, what kinds of change would Mr. Hurl like to see in this regard? Are there issues with the likes of sports capital or the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, LSSIF, or are there changes to the related schemes that Mr. Hurl would like to see? What would benefit the GAA in that regard?

Again, referring to our opening statement, the provision of sports facilities has not kept pace with the provision of housing. Large developments in urban areas are planned without recognising the need for sports facilities. Before we go on, it is very important to say that although we are representing the GAA, this could be about rugby, soccer, basketball or any other sport. The GAA is the body looking into all of this.

It is vital that sport be part of the infrastructure when it comes to planning. Municipal facilities that would be shared with other sports should be built because many of the clubs out there right now do not have the wherewithal and financial capability to produce the piece of land and then develop it. It would be several millions of euro, and not many clubs and communities can afford that.

I thank Dr. Horgan for the presentation. I thank him and Mr. Hurl for being here. Dr. Horgan highlighted the potential for GAA clubs to provide other facilities. I am very familiar with Galway city and my own club, Liam Mellows hurling club. We have 22 acres less than three miles from the city centre. We have provided a fantastic public walkway, which we received funding for through the local authority and national level. It is incredibly popular with residents in the area, etc. Even those from outside of the immediate area will travel to use it. It is an excellent resource for the people close to Renmore and the surrounding area. Regarding the other possibilities mentioned in the opening remarks, though, such as remote working hubs, childcare and after-school services, I have not seen those in Galway city or county. Are they currently in operation in any club or is it an idea at this stage? Are there examples that the witnesses could provide?

They are in operation. I will come back to the Senator with examples of each of those three. We have examples around the country of childcare facilities through GAA clubs and of schools on GAA club facilities. There are remote working hubs whereby people can just come in, plug in and work for the day in the GAA club in the meeting rooms, committee rooms and so on. That is happening in isolated areas. We have unashamedly spoken to anybody and everybody. We have gone all around the country meeting counties and clubs. We have tried to take ideas that are happening organically in various places and spread those. The Senator said it was not in Galway city or county, but it is happening in places like Wexford, Cork and different places like that. Our goal here is to raise awareness in other parts of the country that they can do this too.

Very good. Dr. Horgan mentioned the possibility of shared sporting infrastructure. What does the GAA envision that would look like in practice? I can only discuss Galway, but from my experience, camogie and ladies' football can often struggle with access to facilities. Entirely other sports have been brought into the equation. How practical is that in reality at this time of the year when it is so busy?

The challenge for all of us involved in field sports, which are all voluntary and amateur, is that we need the pitch from 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. on Monday all the way through to Friday and most of the day on Saturday and Sunday. That is the same for a soccer club, GAA club, rugby club, camogie team or ladies' football team. That is a challenge. What we see is a shared facility in conjunction with local authorities and sporting associations that are slightly complementary to one another. As well as a GAA pitch, there may be halls where basketball could be played, athletics tracks or where any of those types of thing can be put in place. The major challenge around those is in the growing urban areas where land is already scarce and very expensive. The Senator might have seen that Cuala GAA club purchased six acres of land for €2 million. Very few clubs can do that across any of our sports. Deputy O'Hara mentioned sports capital funding. There is an opportunity to look at that and ring-fence some of that funding for strategic municipal and multisport facilities in high-growth urban areas whereby we can plan out an appropriate facility that will have grass, artificial glass, athletics tracks, basketball courts and so on that go with that. We have some templates that could work towards that.

Does Dr. Horgan agree that camogie and ladies' football are struggling a little bit in relation to facilities for young ladies? Certainly, in Galway and particular areas, that is an issue.

It is an issue in many clubs where there is a shortage of facilities. The growth in the number of girls participating in Gaelic games has been enormous. One of the things to mention from a statistics perspective is that roughly one in every three boys aged 11 is a member of a GAA club. It is just short of that in terms of girls who are members of camogie or ladies' football teams. The numbers are enormous.

The potential of clubs to increasingly contribute to health and well-being with the appropriate support and partnership structures in place was mentioned. Will Dr. Horgan expand a little bit on that? What will it look like in practice?

Interestingly enough, we were here earlier for a meeting with the Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue. When we were walking out, we met a colleague of ours from the GAA. They were launching a mental health project with Movember and the Gaelic Players Association, GPA. That was happening on the campus at the exact same time.

The Senator mentioned walking tracks and healthy clubs. There are hundreds of GAA clubs now involved as these healthy clubs, which is attracting people to clubs who are not normally traditional GAA members, people who are lapsed members and so on. There are examples of things like men's sheds, community groups, libraries and doctors. All of these different groups have used GAA clubs as centres in rural Ireland whereby the community can engage with their services. All of those things are happening now. I mentioned the Movember project. Those things are being rolled out across clubs around the country. From both a physical and mental health perspective, there is a huge amount of activity happening.

From a rural club point of view, particularly those struggling, if they are to be sustainable, it is essential that families return to areas again. This seemed more achievable in recent years with the rise of remote working. However, as we get further away from the pandemic, companies are less happy to have employees remote working. In many cases, they want them back in the office. Is that a significant challenge for the proposals or what sort of impact is it having?

That is a challenge. Not everybody can work from home and not every employer will allow employees to do so. We have one of the most well-educated cohort of people in our students. According to a study done recently, Ireland has one of the highest rates of graduates.

Rural broadband is another challenge. We are here to talk about the infrastructural deficits, and that is certainly one of them.

I thank Mr. Hurl and Dr. Horgan very much for their opening presentation. The GAA is probably one of the most well-run and best organisations in the country. It is plugged into every town, village and crossroads across the nation. Its 760,000 members are playing members and associate members - people who are involved in the clubs - but there are parents, grandparents, uncles and aunts of those players and members who would feel very part of their clubs as well.

The club is not just a sporting facility. For young people, it is very much somewhere that they meet friends and have their social contacts there. There is also benefit for mental health from playing sport. We can never overestimate how much sport does for mental health in this country. Physical health and learning about nutrition are also hugely important.

Where the GAA really wins is the whole idea of a social hub. Most clubs become social hubs. I think about clubs in my own county. I was recently in Tubber where they share their facilities with 11 other groups in their area. Tubber is just a crossroads, but they have the hinterland where they bring in people. They have a fine football team there playing senior B. They have been in operation for many years. They have been a huge social hub to the whole community, whether it is mother and toddler groups, active ageing groups, women's groups, men's sheds and so on. They are open to them. The power of the GAA can never be underestimated and what it does in our country.

I agree wholeheartedly with the witnesses that the population will follow jobs. Unfortunately, at the moment, most of our jobs are concentrated on the east coast and the other cities around the country. We very much have a hallowing out of the centre of the country with the young population.

Obviously, the younger population are the people having children. They are the players on the teams and also the ones providing the younger players coming on.

The sports capital grants are a fantastic addition, which is clear when I go around to the GAA clubs in my own county. I remember playing football and hurling myself, albeit not very well, and at that stage, in some cases we had to tog out at the side of a ditch. There was a pitch lined out and that was about the height of it. We were lucky if we had nets in the goals. The clubs have developed so much. Now they are really well developed, with car parks, proper dressing room facilities and gyms in most of them. The sports capital programme has helped hugely in that. In addition, the central council of the GAA in Croke Park has provided a lot of funding, which is going back into the grassroots of the game.

The GAA is a fantastic organisation. It is probably the best sporting organisation in the country. What do the representatives think we can do as a Government to help the organisation and to help ourselves? How can we bring the population back to those clubs that are dying? I am thinking about areas in Offaly that were winning county championships not that long ago but are now amalgamating two or three teams to make up underage and senior teams. What can we do as a Government to help revive and revitalise those areas?

I will just add to one of the things the Deputy said about those young people who are the parents of players in our clubs. They are also the parents of our children in schools. Not alone is this a GAA club issue; many small rural schools are also suffering from having fewer and fewer children enrolled. The future of those schools, unfortunately, is that either they close or they operate on a very small numbers basis. The likelihood is that they will end up with amalgamations in those places. For example, in south Kerry a total of 83 children enrolled in junior infants in 13 primary schools last September. Even the big towns only had a dozen children enrol in junior infants. The future for those areas is stark unless we look at opportunities for people to live and work in rural Ireland. It does not have to be in the most remote parts of rural Ireland either. The Deputy mentioned the cities and the large urban towns. We have more towns with populations of between 5,000 and 10,000 than we have ever had, but there are small, rural hinterlands to those places where cluster-style housing of between six and 12 houses could revitalise a village for a generation. It could revitalise and keep the school going and, from our perspective, keep the GAA club going, as well as all of the other social and community things that happen as a result of having vibrant families living in those places.

We have often spoken about the fact that we very much support the concept of balanced regional development. We need to find ways to make it a little bit easier for people to live in those places. To some extent, employment is the driver and people will move to where there is employment. We already know that people can commute and that there are public transport issues but there are also opportunities for people to live more rurally and work in our towns and cities. That needs to be an option for people as well. There is a need for a whole-of-government approach that takes into consideration issues around planning, housing and infrastructure, with other groups here feeding into the local authorities. We have met with the Association of Irish Local Government, AILG, the County and City Management Association, CCMA, and other relevant groups. There is a need to pull all of these groups together in a coherent way to make those types of changes.

This is such an interesting lens through which to look at demographic changes and infrastructure gaps. It is such an important way to see the decline and isolation that so many rural communities face. It also reminds me of a similar issue, the closure of rural pubs. That has quite a similar impact and I am sure there are places where the rural pub is closing and the local GAA club is being heavily impacted. All of the local initiatives that the witnesses are talking about are important. At my local club, for example, in winter people can use the local area track. I think that is what the witnesses are talking about when they refer to healthy clubs and the extension into the broader community. In terms of those initiatives, the GAA gives advice and they are done with clubs that are interested. Has the GAA received any external support for those initiatives, like the remote working hubs? Obviously, we have a massive broadband issue in lots of parts of rural Ireland and I am sure that impacts the remote working hubs. Is there external support for the libraries and the men's and women's sheds from the councils or other grants or is it all being done through the initiative of volunteers?

I am aware of issues around some clubs being decimated while the bigger clubs in more urban areas are experiencing burnout because there is a group of very burnt-out volunteers trying to manage five teams instead of one or two. Is excessive demographic growth in some areas causing unintended consequences for the bigger clubs?

It is great to hear that the GAA has been before the housing committee and is engaging in lots of different spaces. Is it receiving positive feedback? The GAA is involved in advocacy rounds at the moment, which is really good. Do the witnesses get a sense from their engagements that this will lead to a more holistic response from the Government, as it relates to the protection of rural communities through the GAA? Has the organisation been involved with any of the county councils up to this point on issues of planning? Is it regularly engaged as a stakeholder on planning consultations, county development plans and so on?

The demographics report was launched in December 2025. It is an absolutely brilliant piece of work, even if we say so ourselves. The Senator might have a copy of the report in front of her. Its title, No One Shouted Stop Until Now: The GAA's Response to Ireland's Demographic Shift, was taken from a book the Senator is far too young to remember, as are most of the people in this room. The book was written by John Healy, a journalist with The Irish Times, in 1968 . That is how long the issues the Senator is referring to have been going on. Healy's book was originally titled Death of an Irish Town and was about Charlestown, County Mayo. It was about rural depopulation and regional imbalance, particularly in the west of Ireland. John Healy wrote about how Charlestown was dying on its feet and the busiest place in the town was the railway station. Unfortunately, the GAA is not without fault in this. We have allowed this situation to develop, along with Governments and local authorities. The situation I am talking about is the migration of people from rural to urban Ireland.

In terms of the issues the Senator raises, it is important to say that there are two issues that are almost polar opposites. We have the really rural parts, where teams are struggling to field independently and some are having to come together to form a single team. Then there is the other side, and it is very important to talk about that as well. Most people, when you present them with a demographics report, will automatically think of the small, rural clubs in the west of Ireland or wherever, but let us talk about where we are sitting now, in Dublin. There are 430 pitches available to play on for Gaelic games and 70% of those are controlled by local authorities, schools, colleges and other institutions. Only about 120 to 130 pitches are actually owned by Dublin GAA. It is very important to talk about the urban challenges in terms of infrastructure. We can do all of these great things in terms of infrastructure here.

We were with Offaly County Council last week in a little place called Kilcormac where it held its meeting. We are having engagement practically with the councils. When we talk to councils, and this is sort of the conundrum, councillors say that all the power is in Leinster House. In Leinster House, people might say the power is in Brussels. In Brussels, people might say the power is somewhere else. We are here to see what outcomes can be achieved. We can talk until the cows come home about the problems but it is solutions we are focused on. I may be out of time so I will leave it at that.

I welcome our guests. I previously met them in Wexford. I am on the demographics committee in Wexford as a proud member of the GAA and my own local club. I spent nine years on the Wexford county board management committee. I was there in December 2020 when the GAA started this worthwhile initiative. I ask the witnesses to talk briefly about how it came about, the work they have done in preparing the report, how it all started, some of the research they have done, why the GAA is leading the way as a demographics committee nationally and the work they are doing though the clubs and county boards.

I thank the Senator. It would be wrong of us to say that we started this 18 months ago. In some ways, we are the latest iteration of a type of demographics committee in Gaelic games. I will talk about historical matters, just so people are aware. In 1971, the GAA produced a report, the MacNamee report, which referenced the association being strongest where the population was declining and weakest where the population was increasing. In 2002, we produced a strategic review, which also spoke about the issue of demographics and how it affects every town, village and city across the country. This is not a new exercise.

Prior to us, there was an urban and rural committee on which Mr. Hurl sat. It was chaired by Mr. Colm Cummins from Offaly. It started the exercise around capturing information and data, and understanding and analysing it. We moved on with that. We took that and ran with it. Senator Stephenson asked about other funding. We received funding from the Dormant Accounts Fund for the project. We built all those systems to allow us to capture and analyse not alone our own information around membership of clubs and so on but also all publicly available information from the census and the statistics offices, North and South, the Department of education, the Department of Health and so on. We have engaged with academics and other organisations to understand and analyse those things. As we said, we have met and spoken to anybody and everybody who will talk to us for the past 18 months. That brought us to producing the report in December.

The witnesses were also before the housing committee to look at these trends. A point was made in the report about the need for joined-up thinking about housing, where populations are going to be and integration with schools, and the fact that they will need sporting facilities and community use facilities. What is the committee's view on that?

We strongly support the idea of what we call "dual-use facilities", especially in urban areas, whereby facilities can be open for schools, for example, during the daytime in term time and available for community use thereafter. At the moment, that is not always necessarily the case. It can often be the decision of the board of management of an individual school to allow a club or other organisation to use its facilities. We should recognise that across the country, many schools encourage sharing and have shared their facilities with GAA clubs. That should not be forgotten. As Mr. Hurl said, there is a high proportion of schools sharing their facilities with GAA clubs. We think that can work the other way around as well, as it does in many parts of rural Ireland, where the primary school is built next door to the GAA club and the kids do their PE classes on the GAA pitches on a given day. There is give and take there, although that might be the wrong term. There is certainly synergy on both sides that we can look at.

One of the big points in the report is about the number of children aged zero to five and the difference between that age category and the category above of children aged five to ten, and the impact as that cohort moves into the system for the education system and in a sporting context for the GAA. Mr. Horgan might expand on that.

I will do so quickly, if I can. Population projections are notoriously difficult. When we were with the housing committee, our colleagues from the National Economic Social Council also attended the meeting. A colleague, Dr. Gráinne Collins from that organisation, produced a report around Christmas time looking at population projections. We can say, for example, that over the past 15 years, there has been a 26% decrease in the number of children born on the island. Approximately 100,000 children were born in 2010. Approximately 74,000 children were born in 2024. We do not have the 2025 figure yet but you can bet your bottom dollar it is lower. That is currently working through. We chose 2010, which had the highest number of children born, going back to 1987. Those kids are now 16 and will probably be doing junior certificate examinations in the next couple of weeks. They will progress to the leaving certificate in the next couple of years. The highest number of kids who every did the leaving certificate was last year and it will be beaten this year, next year and for the next couple of years, after which the numbers will only go down.

From a GAA perspective, zero- to five-year-olds are not members of our clubs yet, and six- to 11-year-olds are the newest members of our clubs, playing "go games", as we call them. Every single county has fewer zero- to five-year-olds than they have six- to 11-year-olds. That is true of every single county. As I mentioned in my opening statement, only 50 clubs have 25% of all zero- to five-year-olds in their catchment areas. This is an issue of imbalance. Odd things can be true at the same time. A town like Leixlip could be having an explosion of kids of a very young age but, equally, the number of children in that age group is lower.

Across the island, just six counties account for 52% of all zero- to five-year-olds. The lowest 15 counties have fewer zero- to five-year-olds than Dublin has. There is an imbalance there and we feel it is a huge issue. As it is an imbalance, some places have very few. Planning and housing policies are driving people to live in towns and cities. Towns and cities are where the zero- to five-year-olds are going to be but there still will be fewer of them than there has been in the past.

Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as teacht isteach. Shane Cassells mentioned that there was a copy of the report in the corner and I am glad I picked it up. I had a look at it and it is fascinating. I am impressed that the GAA has demographic offices. I am not sure if this issue is on the radar at all at Government level in the context of the development of our country. The statistic that Mr. Horgan mentioned about the collapse in the birth rate is one of the biggest issues affecting the country. It is not being talked about at all. Schools are closing on the west coast and they are opening on the east coast, which is incredible. The average age in Balbriggan is approximately 36 while the average age in Killarney is 41. There is a lopsided age profile developing in the country. That will lead to its own self-fulfilling prophecy. Energy is often created by the youth in any society. If the youth is locating in one particular area, that is going to have an effect.

A bigger question, and it is probably not just for the GAA, is how we get to a replacement rate. That is probably the objective of any society in terms of its birth rate, and we have fallen in that regard. That is the first thing. I do not know if the witnesses have thought about that particular question.

In respect of spatial development, we are in big trouble. I would say that the country is developing into a city state in many ways. People are commuting from Ulster, Connacht and Munster to Dublin on a daily basis. I know people who travel from Tyrone, Galway and Cork to Dublin on a daily basis for work, which is a nightmare scenario.

Right now, the way the country has developed is that a lot of the third level type jobs are in the greater Dublin area so if you are a young person with a third level degree, there is no option but to move to the east coast. Then of course you cannot afford to live in Dublin so you have to live between 40 km and 60 km away from Dublin, which means joining the commuter hell and by the time you get home from work it is 7.30 p.m. and you are too tired to coach in a sports club, which has massive community negative effects in terms of the health of those football and hurling clubs. That is my second question.

Finally, I believe in the necessity to build houses as a priority. I worked in construction many moons ago and one of my bosses was from Donegal. All the people used to go to him with their work problems but he would just say, "Just get it up. Build the damn house", and the Government needs to adopt that same instinct. In my own county of Meath I have seen how difficult it is for clubs like the Navan O'Mahony's GAA Club to get more land. The council's instinct is to suggest for them to talk to the local landowners and see if they can get some land close to the existing pitches and so on or perhaps swap land that the council has its eyes on. I have been dealing with another club called Johnstown Football Club, which has been a homeless soccer club for 20 years even though the club is very successful. Johnstown FC is still negotiating with Meath County Council with maybe a parcel of land happening for them in a particular area. We seem to be good at developing commercial land for factories, etc., instead of making sure that every single parcel of new land to be developed has a core area for sport and on a pro rata basis, maybe on the strength of that support in the locality, it could be divided and given in that regard. From now on, when a school is built, it should be written into the constitution of that school that that school is available to local sporting organisations for use because if the State is paying for that school then that asset should be sweated to meet local needs.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Tóibín. In terms of leadership, we believe that the GAA has shown great leadership and the very fact that we are here means that we are doing something about the whole issue. We have the report, which highlights this issue and it is backed up statistically.

In response to some of the comments made by the Deputy, two thirds of people used to live in urban Ireland and the situation was reversed 60 or 70 years ago. Dr. Horgan has put on display some of the slides from our report. Two thirds of people now live in urban Ireland. That trend is not changing, will get worse and doing nothing is not an option for us. If we are to retain our 2,300 clubs then we must have a stop mechanism. What I say all the time is that if that two thirds becomes three out of four and continues until it becomes nine out of ten then what will we, as a country, look like and, in turn, what will the GAA look like. We believe that the GAA is first, the biggest community, and second, the biggest sporting organisation in the country and maybe in the world.

I recall what Senator Byrne said earlier about joining up the dots. It is essential that we look at all of the things that need to be done. We cannot appear before the joint committee on housing and ask for certain things in terms of infrastructure, sport, education, schools, and ask all of the other Departments because if we do not do this work on a joined-up basis then we will not succeed. We can contribute but we cannot work in isolation. Infrastructure can do various different things but if we do not have a whole-of-government multidepartmental and multi-agency approach then we will not get anywhere. At present we are working with the Office of the Planning Regulator on facilities and Niall Cussen is doing tremendous work on getting the planning and facilities calculator worked out. Similarly, we are working with Sport Ireland.

Earlier the Deputy asked about volunteerism and mentioned the problem of people having to commute long distances, including from Tyrone. I am from Tyrone. Today, it took me an hour and a half to reach the airport and another hour and a half to get here so distance is a problem. Returning home and volunteering for a local club is an option but people are not choosing that option any more and that is a huge problem. I hope that the Government now realises exactly what we face and we came here to inform the committee and work on outcomes.

Planning is something we should be good at. What does the delegation think of the idea of having a solid chunk of land set aside for sporting organisations when a new land bank is being developed for housing?

Yes, I 100% agree. We made the point in our more in-depth written statement that planning for sporting facilities needs to happen at the same time as planning for housing. I do not think any of us want a situation where there are hundreds and, possibly, thousands of houses but no recreational facilities, parks, pitches, swimming pools or athletics tracks. I do not think any of us would see that as a positive outcome. It would be great if we can define sport and recreational facilities as essential social infrastructure that must accompany housing in the planning process.

Mr. Hurl made a point about the Office of the Planning Regulator and where that comes in. There are two things that are happening in the UK. First, Sport England is a prescribed body in the planning process and now Sport Ireland is a prescribed body here in the planning process. Sport Ireland will need the resources to be able to engage with local authorities to ensure those things happen.

The Deputy hit the nail on the head when he said that we can analyse the demographics of a town or an area. We can analyse the participation of various sports, not just Gaelic games but whatever sports are in those areas, and we can estimate or predict what the sporting facility requirement might be in a given area. That is exactly what we are trying to do at the moment with Sport Ireland and the Office of the Planning Regulator. It is not just us. There is a variety of ten or 12 sports involved in that work.

I thank the delegation for coming in today. I was keen for the GAA to be invited to attend because we are the infrastructure committee. I was a councillor for many years and infrastructure encompasses the roads, rail and social infrastructure. Obviously when I saw the work being done by the GAA I felt compelled to seek the guidance, views and thoughts of the GAA. This report, even from what we have heard today, will act like a canary in a coal mine by warning about the risks posed to rural communities and challenges faced by urban communities. I come from more of an urban constituency in north Kildare but there are rural towns and villages in my constituency that struggle to get housing. While the population of Naas has grown significantly there is only one club and not enough facilities. In contrast, there are clubs like Castledermot GAA and Ardclough GAA. Castledermot GAA, despite everything, has still managed to win an under-16s county title but that success happens less often for such clubs. I note the success of the Ballygunner GAA in County Waterford, Portlaoise GAA and yourselves in county championships. All that success does is knock other clubs down because they see they are up against a brick wall in terms of participation numbers.

What is the one single ask by the GAA following today's meeting?

I thank the Deputy for his observations. I know some of the clubs that he has mentioned. I have visited Ardclough. I know that community and how hard they work.

With regard to a single ask, there is a lot we can do. If we do not work together and have a plan, however, nothing will come to fruition. When it comes to the work of this committee, I would love to see it come together with the sport and housing committees, as well as any other relevant committee, to have a joint meeting with us. As I said, we represent the GAA but it could be soccer, rugby or any other sport. We have a great association and a great country. Since the Famine, we have never had a population in excess of 7 million. Economically, we are very well off. If we look at those two things, first, it is not a numbers problem. We have-----

I am conscious of my time. I want to try to maximise-----

We have the people. Second, it is not a money problem. It is a structural problem. My one ask is for all of these committees to come together so that we can lay out a plan to get the desired outcomes.

Coming from an urban area, I was involved in local area plans. How can we ensure the GAA, at club level, has a role in putting forward contributions to local area plans and town settlement plans? We are focusing on the GAA because its reprsentatives are here but I am sure other sports have the same idea in this regard. Ultimately, that is where land gets zoned. Kerdiffstown, Kildare has the GAA pitch. How do we ensure the GAA is fully at the table when land is getting zoned for those areas rather than it becoming the case that the cricket club, for example, wants something? How do we ensure the GAA is at the top table in all of those individual areas?

It is true-----

The GAA has done an amazing job with the sports capital grant.

It is true that GAA clubs and counties have probably not contributed that much to county development plans in the past. Sometimes, they may not have known they were happening or felt they did not have the skills to contribute properly. We recommend internally that we create what we call a club support unit in order to help our clubs and counties do exactly that and understand when and where these are happening.

That is key.

Absolutely. We also met the Association of Irish Local Government, AILG. We have a joint pledge with the AILG towards local authorities and Gaelic games working closer together. That is an essential part of it.

What was the Deputy’s second point?

That was it. It was more about ensuring the GAA is at the top table and part of discussions with the councils, as opposed to other interest groups. Ultimately, he who shouts the loudest often gets the land. I am talking about the likes of Kerdiffstown where there is a GAA pitch but the plans are for multi-use facilities. It was easier in the past. Land was given but because land is now too valuable, it gets designated as multi-use. How do we ensure the GAA is at the top table in that regard?

The sports capital grant was mentioned earlier. The GAA is nearly 150 years old. For its 100th anniversary, the GAA made a big push for clubs to own their facilities. If a club had a pitch, it should have bought it. If it was renting off landowners, it should have bought it. That has allowed us to take advantage of the sports capital grants over the past 20 or 25 years. As Mr. Hurl said, however, it is likely no longer viable for many clubs to do that on a stand-alone basis. We, therefore, fully support the likes of Kerdiffstown where there are multi-use facilities. One of the messages we are keen to get across to all local authorities is that we need those facilities too. There might be a perception out there that the GAA is fine and that it has enough.

That is what I am afraid of.

We have a huge need. As Mr. Hurl mentioned, in Dublin alone, we think we need about 115 pitches today to stand still, not to grow.

I am conscious of my time. The issue being highlighted here is the value and scarcity of land. A total of 25% of all those aged between zero and five in Ireland are inside the catchment area of 50 GAA clubs. That is a scary statistic. That means there are some 2,200 clubs left to cover the remaining 75%. That is a huge structural and national issue. What can the GAA do to help ensure those clubs do not become the superclubs that we fear? Essentially, those clubs are competing almost to a county standard. They have county numbers and they risk swamping the development of other clubs. That is with the witnesses' pure GAA hat on.

That is starting to happen across the country, especially at underage level. Some strong clubs – largely urban - are starting to dominate all underage groups.

I wish to return to the facilities piece before I finish. The LDA has the ability to purchase or access land at the existing price rather than the future potential price. When clubs look to try to purchase land, there is a landowner somewhere thinking they will get a bit more for their field if it gets zoned for housing. We hear anecdotally that no one wants their land zoned for sporting and recreation facilities because it is not worth-----

The value is one fifth.

Perhaps there is something we can look at in this regard. If sport and recreation facilities are designated as essential sporting and social infrastructure for the country, maybe they could be purchased at existing cost, rather than at potential land costs. Perhaps we have to do it in conjunction with the local authorities. That is certainly something we are looking at exploring.

I fear that is what Deputy Tóibín was highlighting. The GAA is almost told to go off and chat to the developers to see whether something can be figured out. We cannot be in that space.

I thank the witnesses for assisting the committee in this matter today. I suggest the secretariats of the three committees sit down together. I am sure there is a common thread with a lot of common issues. There might have been some issues raised at one committee that were not raised here. When they have a summary of the three meetings - I do not know what was said at the other meetings – they can come back to the committees or the three Cathaoirligh to see what-----

Maybe we can form a subcommittee with a couple of members from each committee.

Yes, we will ask for volunteers from each committee. First, I will ask the secretariats to meet among themselves to pull together the common themes. At that stage, we will bring the matter back to the committees where members from each committee will work together. We do not want to say, “Thank you very much and good luck. We will see you next year in Croke Park”. That is no good.

Before the witnesses leave, I ask members to-----

Can I come back in?

Absolutely. I apologise.

I apologise. I thought the Chair was finishing up. I thank Dr. Hogan and Mr. Hurl. I could listen to them talk about the statistics and numbers all day. Mr. Hurl is beginning to sound like Sinn Féin. He thinks we have a magic money tree. There is a lot of money going into infrastructure in the country to try to sort this. Trying to have balanced growth is the number one issue for the Government. We realise that we have deficits in different parts of the country. The vacant property grant is a huge advantage to smaller towns and villages across the country that have been decimated. To take my county of Offaly as an example, the likes of Bord na Móna and ESB Networks are no longer employing the same numbers that they once were. They have kind of hollowed out different areas. When Offaly was strong in both football and hurling, the players were coming from these areas. It was those villages and towns that won All-Ireland medals. We have the vacant property grant. We also have the over-the-shop grant as well. The critical infrastructure plan is to try to make things happen a lot quicker. We are talking about water infrastructure in different areas. We now allow for developers to put in their own modular water infrastructure or build the infrastructure to get to a water treatment plant. We are doing a lot of stuff in those areas. We are spending an awful lot of money. We have never spent as much money as we are at the moment on infrastructure.

The document the witnesses provided is fantastic. A huge amount of work has gone into it. Some of the issues in the document have been taken up and dealt with by the Ministers for housing and public expenditure They will be dealing with more of them as well. We agree that we need to improve infrastructure around the country for this to happen.

Given the pressures on land and facilities in growing communities - I think some of the other Deputies and Senators have asked this - how does the GAA see the dual use of shared pitches with schools and local authorities working in practice going forward?

I know it was mentioned but how does Mr. Hurl see it working, going forward? Will it be something that is run by a community group? Will it be run by a local authority? How exactly does Mr. Hurl see it happening?

Looking at the future, does the GAA believe the traditional club model can remain unchanged? In rural areas experiencing declines in population, does the GAA believe the parish rule and the growth of independent under-age teams are creating challenges for player numbers and the sustainability of adult clubs? As the country itself becomes increasingly diverse, what more can the GAA do to improve the integration and participation of new Irish communities within clubs at local level? I am absolutely 100% behind what the document says, what the GAA is trying to achieve and the whole social and community infrastructure aspect.

We have been to Offaly and there are 41 clubs at adult level. There are only 16 teams at under-age level. That means there are a huge number of amalgamated teams when you take out the big centres like Birr, Tullamore and places like that. As we already talked about, there have been a couple of very well-supported motions on the definition of a club that came from the demographics committee that have already flown through congress. The Deputy talked about the traditional model and this provides flexibility.

In our work on demographics, there is a triple-track approach. There are internal actions, the data sets we have referred to here and the external stuff. We are working very hard at the internal stuff, such as on the definition of a club and smaller numbers of players on a team. That has already happened. More will happen. We do not see major changes to the club structures. Obviously, there will be tweaks. There is now the football review committee, FRC. We did not ever think there would be foam on the ground, two pointers and all of that. The GAA has evolved and developed over a long number of years and has grown into the biggest community sporting organisation in the country. We will continue to do things internally to help.

Quite simply, however, with the trend of population movement from rural to urban that seems to be continuing unabated, that means there are more and more people who will live in urban centres. The Deputy talked about the large number of projects there are in terms of infrastructure. It is very important that urban centres are served infrastructurally but it is hugely important to our association that the smallest, weakest and most rural clubs are not left behind. There is a sense that rural Ireland is being left behind. Part of the reason why we are here is to make it clear there are two sides to the same coin; there is the rural part and the urban part. The suggestion by the Cathaoirleach to get the various secretariats to come together to achieve a desired outcome is a very good one.

It was said earlier that we did not know whether it was the councils, Leinster House or the European Union that would sort this issue. This is an issue that will be sorted out between the councils and Leinster House. It does not need to go to Europe. If we started talking about Gaelic football and hurling, they would not know what we are talking about. It is an issue that needs to be solved internally.

I thank the witnesses for joining us. I was in Kilcormac a couple of weeks ago when they were at the Offaly council meeting so I have heard a little bit of this already but it is welcome and an important discussion. As someone who played hurling all my life and proudly displays a Leinster medal in my office, the GAA is close to my heart and it is very much part of the community. In one sense, everything that happens in a community ripples from it so it is hugely important.

For a point of clarity on the opening statement, the GAA's analysis shows that 50 clubs' catchment areas now account for one quarter of all children. That is one quarter of the population aged zero to five. Is that one quarter of the entire population of one quarter of who turns up to play GAA games?

That is a quarter of the entire population aged nought to five.

It is the entire population, okay.

A total of 52% are to be found in only six counties.

Okay. Considering the committee we are and how we deal with infrastructure, there is a housing-specific committee that will be going through one-off housing, planning and serviced sites and so on. Serviced sites were mentioned in the opening statement and how it has made an impact on a club. Are there any examples that could be shared with us that could be used as a working example?

Our great colleague, Senan Cook, is based in Dunhill in Waterford. He often gives us the example of small, cluster style housing developments having happened there over the years. He will speak about how they have revitalised not alone the club but the local primary school and the various amenities within the village to keep shops, pubs and all of those things going.

In theory, one could argue that what Offaly won in the 1980s was part of a cluster development through enterprise and employment in the ESB and Bord na Móna. Maybe that is an area we need to explore further. To go back to the infrastructure piece, if you look at a county like Offaly, there are about 70 GAA clubs and there are six or seven soccer clubs and four or five rugby clubs. When you talk about municipal facilities, how does the GAA envisage this being driven? I know other speakers have mentioned local authorities and Leinster House but from a sporting perspective, is the GAA looking at an overarching body of different groups coming together or what discussions have there been to date about that?

We are open to conversations about that. It has been suggested to us that local authorities could take responsibilities for those. I am sure local authorities might say they are not sure they want to take that on. Equally, it could be on a very local basis and the constituent clubs across the various sporting divides could come together and form some sort of overarching steering group or management group for facilities. Those are all possibilities. We do not necessarily think there is a one-size-fits-all approach for that. We are operating on the basis that in some parts of the country, such as Offaly, it might be the local authority that is in charge. In Meath, Westmeath or Longford, it could be something else again. We are very open to all of those conversations on that with both local authorities and other sporting organisations.

Drilling down into that a little more, in reality, a municipal campus would probably end up where the greatest levels of population are. If you take Offaly, Birr, Tullamore and Edenderry, I would question - maybe I am wrong - if anyone from my club in Kinnitty will go to hurling training in Birr. Has Dr. Horgan seen examples of where that is working as it is?

We argue that it does not necessarily need to be a training facility for Kinnitty. There is the example of our Connacht games centre of excellence in Bekan which literally sees hundreds of thousands of people go through the door on an annual basis. It caters for almost all of the north west. It is not necessarily a training facility, although it is a training facility for some people. It gives people an opportunity to come and play. We met with the Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue, this morning and one of the issues with hurling in Ulster and the north west might be travel distances between clubs. They could be vast. Some of these places could just become centres where these games can be played and they are guaranteed to be played. They could be midway points or halfway points between various clubs to allow them play their games there as well.

We want to approach that on a strategic basis with other sports, local authorities and other interested groups to say we will put these in high growth areas. With the community sports grant, it might be a strategic proportion of that which is ring-fenced.

I might be asking unfair questions or it has not been looked at yet but from a funding perspective, how does Dr. Horgan see a funding model for it work? Has he put any thought to it yet?

We do not have it on paper is what we can say about that. If there is an approach between the governing bodies of the GAA, rugby, soccer, athletics, basketball and so on, we could ring-fence some of the community sports fund on a strategic basis. There could be local authority involvement as well.

There could be development levies on local authorities.

One of the other recommendations we have is that we look at how those things are used towards the provision of sporting facilities.

What does Dr. Horgan see as the next steps on this?

Is it specifically on the municipal facilities?

I refer to addressing the problems Dr. Horgan has identified in this report. Could he pick the top three?

Mr. Hurl mentioned earlier the need for a strategic approach across multiple organisations and institutions in Leinster House, and that is a really important piece. We also see a significant piece around the identification or designation of sporting facilities as essential social infrastructure and, therefore, that it accompanies housing development rather than follows it. That would be a second piece we see as hugely important. The third, which is specifically related to the remit of this group, is the ability to have infrastructure that supports and facilitates housing in those smaller rural villages and towns on that six-, eight- or ten-house basis we discussed.

I thank Dr. Horgan. Does Deputy Micheál Carrigy want to come in as chairman of the housing committee? I am pleased he came in. To fill him in, we have a great discussion. I know the housing committee has had it and the witnesses have before the sports committee. I suggest that the secretariat of the three committees meet, pull together the common themes and we might put a working group together. The first thing is that the three secretariats work and see all the common stuff. Something might have been mentioned here that was not mentioned at the Deputy's committee's meeting, or vice versa.

I was going to propose that as well.

It is sounds like a good idea.

It is a sensible proposal.

It would make no sense for the three committees to be going off in their own directions.

No.

We will have a bit of co-operation between the three committees and we will take it from there. There is no decision beyond what we do; I do not know the structure, but we will start with that and then bring it back to the three committees. We might want a small group from each of the committees who have a particular interest in it to work together to see what happens next. We will decide that when we get something back from the secretariats. Deputy Carrigy can proceed.

That is the sensible option. We met Dr. Horgan and Mr. Hurl prior to the committee meeting and then they came before the committee. It is very apt at the minute and we have to look at the issue of decline, particularly on the western seaboard. We see schools closing, empty school classes and sporting facilities, clubs struggling yet in our major cities there is not enough space, schools or sporting facilities. There are waiting lists in schools and clubs. That is down to planning and where planning is being given.

Since we met, there has been a strong push from us as a committee, and we are looking at whether new rural planning guidelines can be brought out to ease planning in the rural areas. We did a piece, too, on planning in the Gaeltacht. Over the next number of weeks, prior to the summer recess, I expect to see new guidelines to help foster development in housing in the Gaeltacht areas. We are thinking along the right way, and I fully support the proposal about the three groups, rather than three individual groups going off in silos. Why we never get things done a lot of times in government is when silos happen. We should work together and work with Dr. Horgan, Mr. Hurl and the team to put together strong proposals that will be there for years to come.

On the ground, it needs to be local authority-led. It is a layer of local government. The same system should apply across all the country. We are looking at bringing in new ten-year county development plans and there has to be consistency in all the plans in that infrastructure must be provided in conjunction with the development of housing. That infrastructure needs to be sporting infrastructure as well to make sure we have the facilities in place. I know some of the clubs, even here in Dublin, have 4,000 or 5,000 members using three or four pitches. I remember, years ago, being involved with Longford hurling. We were playing in a Lory Meagher Cup final. We are in one next Sunday and I wish the lads the very best of luck in the final. Pre-game, we went to Na Fianna's pitch for a warm-up at 10 o'clock on a Saturday morning. There were about 500 kids on a couple of pitches. John Horan was there at the time and he said they were just the under-8s - not the under-7s and under-8s but just the eight-year-olds. In Longford, we would not have that number of kids in the entire county able to play for us. There are a lot of issues there and we need to work together to make sure we put the proper facilities in place.

I believe strongly in the regional centres of excellence such as Bekan. It works. It is available for schools and is used 350-odd days of the year. If you are looking for a hurling centre of excellence, we are developing one in Longford at the minute. We have bought beside Glennon Brothers Pearse Park, so we are looking to develop there. It is important, particularly in that northern region of the country where hurling is probably weaker. We have seen the success of the Táin leagues at underage level but we need to put the facilities in place to make sure we safeguard the best sporting game in the world.

I wanted to come in to support Mr. Hurl, Dr. Horgan and the work they have done. The three committees should work together to put together a combined report for Government. I am willing to work together with the Chair, committee members and the Chair of the sports committee to do that.

Grand.

Can I come back in before the Chair wraps up?

Of course

Once again, I thank the witnesses for coming in. I have been involved in the GAA in all shapes or forms since I was very small and I continue to go to matches. We lost a final on Monday night. I can see the impact that it has on the children and the positive things it does. They are very sad when they lose finals but it has a positive impact on them, their families and community spirit. I am not saying that other sporting organisations do not do amazing things but the GAA not only does that, it is also at the forefront of highlighting where there are national issues. It is at the cutting edge of infrastructure, when it can. I refer to what it has done in Mayo, and what Deputy Carrigy is talking about in Longford. I see how Kildare hurling has come on so strongly and we need more counties like Kildare. We need Kildare hurling to get stronger. We also want other counties like Meath and others coming through because, ultimately, it is the success of GAA that helps build those communities so they can contribute to Irish life.

We have an issue on the western seaboard, where the population is dropping. That is something we really have to focus on and this helps inform the full debate we are having. It is also about Uisce Éireann. Bringing it to brass tacks, it is one thing ensuring the local area plans have the lands designated for the GAA but it is also about identifying the towns and villages from its point of view. I recently met with Rathcoffey GAA, as an example. It has great pitches and brilliant facilities but we need Uisce Éireann to go in so more houses can be put in there because while they have the school places and all those facilities, they do not necessarily have the water and wastewater infrastructure, which is holding the community back from developing further. That knowledge we get is coming from the GAA clubs and it shows their vital role.

On a local level, we see that. This is the national conversation. To Deputy Carrigy's point on the local authorities as well, it is bringing it all together and ensuring that we get things working properly. I thank the witnesses again for coming in today and for all their work. I look forward to working on a subcommittee, if we are able to pull it together, to continue to help. We will continue to liaise. Let this not be the end of the discussion.

I thank members for their contributions. It has been a good, extensive and comprehensive discussion. I thank Dr. Peter Horgan and Mr. Benny Hurl for their attendance and presentation and for assisting the committee in its work. In regard to any information the members have requested that was not available today, there was not too much because the witnesses had such good documents to start with. In any event, if there was any such question that needs further information supplied, I ask that it be provided to the committee as soon as possible. If there is any issue, please work with the clerk to the committee on that. Off the top of my head, I think the report had far more information in it than we had anticipated. If there is anything, the witnesses can come back to us and we will work with the two other relevant committees here and come back to them as soon as we have some information on that. At this stage, the meeting is adjourned.

I wish to say a few quick words.

Okay.

They are mainly words of thanks. I thank the Cathaoirleach, Deputy Neville and everybody else here for the invitation. Huge goodwill has been shown towards the GAA. That has been earned by the GAA, by the way. We are a 32-county community sporting organisation. North and South, we have the same goodwill.

On behalf of the national demographics committee, I thank all the committee members for the work that they are doing. Some of them are members of clubs and are working hard on the ground, and professionally as well.

I pay tribute to the local authorities. We have got this pledge that has been recently signed as a result of the all-island local government conference. There is huge momentum built up around the whole area of demographics and that is evidenced by the fact that we are here today.

The GAA is leading. We showed great leadership. I would like to pay tribute to our national demographics committee and all of the people who are working hard on it, and to our uachtarán, Jarlath Burns, and Tom Ryan, our ard stiúrthóir. This has been a really positive engagement. We are hugely motivated and enthusiastic and we will get things done. Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Go raibh maith agat. At this stage, there will be no other business of the committee today. The meeting now stands adjourned until 10 June.