I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I wish to share time with Senator Flynn.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House.

Before I start, I welcome Councillor Joe Malone, from the Local Authority Members Association, LAMA, who is in the Gallery this evening. I thank LAMA and the Association of Irish Local Government, AILG, for attending the briefing that I hosted here last week and all those who attended.

I am delighted to move the Local Government (Support for Elected Members) Bill 2024 on Second Stage in the Seanad today. I am grateful to my colleagues in the Civil Engagement Group, Senators Ruane, Flynn and Higgins, for co-sponsoring the Bill and for agreeing to use our Private Members' time for this important issue. However, I am extremely disappointed that the Government has tabled a timed amendment to the Bill. A delay of 12 months is simply not acceptable. This legislation is urgently needed for councillors to be able to perform their functions to the best of their ability.

The use of timed amendments has become a regular feature of how the Government engages with legislation in the Seanad and it is cynically undermining our parliamentary work. I have been waiting seven years for the occupied territories Bill. That Bill passed Second Stage seven or eight years ago and I am still waiting because we had a timed amendment then. Here we are still in that situation. Such amendments are designed so that the Government can delay legislation and people in Government parties will not be seen to vote against something they believe in and care about.

To be absolutely clear, I am willing to work with the Minister and the Department to work out how the Bill could best be made operational, to figure out any necessary amendments and to engage thoroughly on the content of the Bill before Committee Stage. The timed amendment is simply not necessary. The legislative process allows for the time needed to make any changes the Government deems necessary to make the Bill implementable. Delaying it is a signal of intent from the Minister that he wants to put this Bill on the long finger and Government Senators should not accept it. I understand all about the task force, but I think this will work closely with the task force. In speaking to the AILG, they agreed with me on that.

I am particularly disappointed in the Fine Gael Senators who attended the audiovisual room briefing that I hosted last week with representatives from LAMA and the AILG. After listening to what councillors had to say about the need for and importance of this Bill, they all made commitments, including a commitment to support this legislation today. They said it there in front of LAMA and the AILG. I hope they can see sense and vote against the timed amendment today because I do not see how they can support this legislation and also support delaying its progression through the House.

Having said all that, I will speak about why I have introduced this Bill and why it is so urgently necessary. I must thank Emma and Seb in my office for their work on the Bill and the many councillors who have contacted me and others here to express their strong support, and not forgetting Robbie as well. I want to say a special thanks to Senator Ruane because at the very beginning it was her idea. We are all too aware in this House of the extraordinary pressures faced by local councillors around the country. We all know that the Seanad has a particular relationship with our local councillors. Many of us work with councillors every day or have previously served as elected members of local government. The role that councillors play in their local communities is invaluable because they put a familiar face on political decision-making and democracy more generally. However, the role of the councillor in recent decades, and particularly in the 21st century, has transformed, with increasing expectations that are extreme, intense and growing. Moreover the salaries and supports given to councillors have not changed to match this extraordinary change and evolution in the role. Serving as an elected member of a local authority is no longer a part-time job, especially with the advent of social media that causes greater expectations regarding the availability of councillors to respond to constituents' queries.

Increased expectations on councillors come in the context of the massive decline of over 600 local representatives since the abolition of town councils in 2014.

The status quo is putting extraordinary pressure on all our councillors, their families, mental health and livelihoods. In this context, my Bill is a simple and straightforward proposal with a single objective: to allow local councillors to hire administrative staff to support their important work as elected officials. We all know current expectations on councillors are huge. I see it daily. It is unrealistic and it is growing.

During the Seanad's Public Consultation Committee' s 2024 hearings on the future of local democracy, it was clear that change to the level and breadth of support available to councillors is desperately needed. Our report made several recommendations related to the clear need to provide better pay conditions and wraparound supports to councillors and candidates for local election, particularly for women and those from minority backgrounds. Increased expectations on councillors have also been matched by a trend of increasing removal of powers from elected members, as demonstrated by the library and research paper that informed our hearings.

There have been many reports, studies and publications in recent years related to the need for a change to the status quo for local councillors. In the independent review of the role of remuneration of local authority elected members published by the Department of housing and local government in June 2020, Sarah Moorhead SC made it clear that there is huge demand among councillors for greater administrative support as a key measure to support their important elected functions and to retain new councillors in the longer term. Women For Election previously found that a key barrier in decision making for female candidates to run and for women councillors to remain is the absence of real administrative support for councillors juggling personal and professional responsibilities.

My Bill is offered as one part of the package of reforms that are needed to address these many structural challenges. Amazing stuff came out of the Seanad consultation committee. We learned so much. This is only one little thing. I really want this to work and I thought we would get support from everybody here today. I really thought this was a simple Bill. My Bill is offered as one part of the package of reforms.

As we all know, local councillors across the country are doing extremely hard work, representing large geographical electoral areas containing thousands of constituents, often without any administrative support at all, barring a small allowance in which secretarial support is one category of many. Councillors must contend with issues of huge technical and social complexity and a large volume of correspondence, all the while being the face of politics and democracy in their local communities. This is where this Bill comes in.

If passed, this Bill empowers the Minister for housing and local government to ensure that each member of every local authority across the country would be entitled to the same level of staffing support that we receive as Oireachtas Members. The Bill would amend the Local Government Act 2001 to extend an entitlement to the same administrative support that we receive as Oireachtas Members to each elected member of every local authority in the State. The definition of "administrative support" is taken to mean exactly as that contained in the Houses of the Oireachtas Act which governs our scheme for secretarial assistance in Leinster House. The Minister for housing and local government would be required to adopt a new scheme akin to the scheme for secretarial assistance to allow local councillors to employ support staff to assist in the performance of their elected duties.

All of us in this House know the invaluable role our Seanad office staff play in our work. We know this place would grind to a halt without them. Can you imagine the difficulties and challenges we would face without the critical support they provide? That is the everyday reality of our councillors right now. It has to change. If we vote against the timed amendment this evening, the Seanad can send an important message to all Ireland's councillors that we believe their work to be critical and that they play a vital role in Irish democracy that is worth supporting. We would be saying that they are entitled to, at a minimum, the same administrative support in terms of staffing given to all other elected public representatives in Ireland, including all of us. We all know the vital role councillors play in their local communities and in service of the public interest. They deserve and are entitled to be supported to perform their important functions with adequate pay, fair working conditions and with a level of policy advice and administrative help that recognises their elected mandates. This Bill would go some way to support councillors and has the potential to revitalise, renew and rebuild local democracy in Ireland. We should take advantage of this important opportunity and we should not delay it. I commend the Bill to the House.

I second the Bill. We had a briefing in the audiovisual room last week. As Senator Black said, many county councillors and Senators attended that meeting. Senator Ruane wrapped it all up for me last week. As Senator Black said, Senator Ruane could not get over the fact that county councillors did not have administrative supports or an assistant. This time last year, Senator Black and I introduced the Bill in the Seanad. Last week, we listened to representatives from LAMA and county councillors speak of the work they do on the ground. From being born and reared on a halting site and living in one of the most working-class areas in Dublin, I probably know more than any other Senator the work that county councillors do. They are like community workers, counsellors, addiction service professionals, etc. For me, this legislation is not focused on the councillors, it is more about local democracy and communities. Now, more than ever, our local government needs support. Local government does not play politics. It does so much more than politics. We have to acknowledge and respect that.

I spoke to a county councillor today, Daithí Doolan. He said councillors took cuts when TDs and Senators took cuts. However, while the TDs and Senators' pay packets came back up a little bit, county councillors' pay packets did not come back up whatsoever.

They did.

No, they did not.

With respect, changes were made.

No, they were not. A county councillor told me that today out of his own mouth. There is Senator Kyne over there and me here. If I did not have the support of my parliamentary assistant, PA, I would not be able to come in here to deliver a speech. None of us would be. We could deliver our speeches, but we need PAs to do the graft work. Why should Senators and TDs have them when county councillors do not?

The majority of people in this House are voted in by county councillors, including the Senator who said that their pay was restored. It was not restored. It is not reflected in the work our county councillors do. As Senator Black rightly said, why are we putting this on the long finger? Why are we kicking the can down the road. These councillors need the support. We see the rise of hatred, discrimination, racism and a lot of antisocial behaviour in many communities. It is not the fault of the majority of people in these communities, it is a few bad apples. The county councillors step in to help. They create job opportunities for some young people in rural Ireland.

This Bill would enable county councillors who are mothers to have a bit of a work-life balance. It is really important. As Senator Black said, kicking the can down the road is not acceptable. The Senators in this House cannot go to the audiovisual room and say that they support the county councillors and then support the Government's proposal to kick the Bill down the road for another 12 months. In those 12 months, we could work with county councillors and have administrative workers in place for them. From the bottom of my heart, it is not just about county councillors. This is about communities. It is also about good pay. It is about the equality of opportunity that I speak about all the time in this House.

My friends always asked me, before I became a Senator, whether I would run for local office. I said “No way”, because it is the hardest job to do while living and working in the same community. Many years ago, before I was ever a Senator, one person said to me that it is a tough job because even on days when a councillor is burying a loved one or on Christmas or New Year’s Day, he or she does not have any time off.

I worked with the Minister of State in the previous Seanad and I know his heart is in the right place. He wants better for our local county councillors. We look forward to liaising with him to bring this legislation to reality. For the Civil Engagement Group, in one sense, it is still a win for us to have the Bill paused. The Seanad does business differently this term than it did in the previous term. If the Government does not have the guts to vote against many Bills, or be honest about what it wants to say about them, they are kicked down the road with the support of Government parties’ Senators.

The Senator will be in government some day.

Please God, all going well.

Without interruption, please.

We look forward to that.

We are not looking at this as a loss. Rather, through no fault of the Minister of State, it is just how the Seanad has been doing business this year. It is something we have to take up as Senators to make this House as productive as it was in its previous term.

I join Senators in welcoming Councillor Joe Malone to the Gallery. He is most welcome. I thank him for all his work on LAMA.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after “That” and substitute the following:

“Seanad Éireann resolves that the Local Government (Support for Elected Members) Bill 2024 be read a second time on this day 12 months, to allow for further consideration of the Bill.”

I thank the Minister of State for being here today and the Independent Senators for bringing forward this Bill. Well done on introducing it. Obviously, we support the sentiment and intention of the Bill. As a former city councillor, the pressure, demands and unreasonable efforts expected of city councillors are no mystery to me. Not only was I elected but, as Senator Flynn said, I live in my constituency and community too. Elected members of local authorities, of whom there are 949 in the 31 independent local authorities right around the country, have specifically defined roles in terms of policymaking and policy decisions. I hope Senator Flynn can stay because I wish for her to understand where we are coming from on this. Our voting-----

Yes, I just have to take a call. It is from the crèche.

Okay. It is important that everyone in this House and every councillor around the country understands why we will be voting for a timed amendment. It is not because we do not understand the pressures of councillors or because we think they do not need or deserve support. Rather, we wish to ensure their needs and the supports they require are provided in a holistic way. That is why we have supported the establishment of a local democracy task force and are working to use our position in government to deliver changes. I acknowledge the efforts of Councillor Joe Malone and of LAMA. Councillors like Joe Malone and those on the executive of LAMA do incredible work. Not only do they do their own jobs as councillors for their communities within local authorities, but they take on additional roles within LAMA to champion all councillors. Similarly, those councillors who work with AILG also give their time to strengthen local democracy in a way that is meaningful. They are actively engaged. I have met both LAMA and the AILG along with the Minister and the Government. They are actively supporting the local democracy task force and I absolutely believe the task force can deliver not just the administrative support but all of the other supports our elected representatives need.

Senator Kyne alluded to the Moorhead report, which we dealt with in the previous Oireachtas. It made some improvements, such as improvements in payments to councillors, but there are still unresolved issues. While the allowance may have increased to €28,000, there are still issues around pensions, the lack of a pension and the fact there is only a gratuity which is capped. That absolutely needs to be addressed. Councillors have raised issues about how they are responsible for the policymaking, budget-making and reserved functions of their councils. For example, Dublin City Council has an annual budget of €1.6 billion but the councillors, to be fair to them, have what are defined as part-time roles. That is an enormous responsibility. They need access to independent advice and supports to help them to do their jobs because on top of all of the policy, regulatory and statutory obligations, what motivates them all primarily is their desire to champion their communities and local authority areas. They do it with heart and more energy than most people give in a regular, full-time job.

I absolutely support the sentiment of the Bill. I urge the Minister of State in his response to outline how the local democracy task force will address this issue and other issues. It would be really helpful if the Minister of State could, in the course of his response, address the need to encourage councillors to continue in the role and service so they have a wealth of service. The gratuity issues have to be addressed for our councillors as well. We also must ensure we attract new and diverse members to our local authorities. There is a huge barrier for younger people to become local authority members because once someone becomes a local authority member, they become a person of political interest and, all of a sudden, as a person of political interest, it is difficult to get a bank loan or mortgage or progress in other areas of their lives. Those issues are real, and that is before we start talking about all of the negativity that comes with being a public representative. As Senator Flynn said, public representatives live in the community and are accessible all of the time not just on social media from anonymous bots but from people living on their street or road in their village. Our democracy depends on our local authority members and us protecting and championing them. We are absolutely committed to doing that but the way to achieve progress is through a process that is properly resourced, funded and structured that can be then responded to and delivered on by the Government. I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House and I look forward to his response.

Before I call the next speaker, I welcome Mr. William Buttimer, who is the youngest brother of the Minister of State, Deputy Jerry Buttimer. He is most welcome to Seanad Éireann. I thank him for coming here. The Minister of State has signed him in for the next two hours, so we look forward to his presence here for the next two hours. I hope he enjoys his time in Leinster House.

I second the amendment. The Minister of State is very welcome to the Chamber. I also welcome Councillor Joe Malone. I thank him for the work he is doing, along with his colleagues in LAMA, which represents councillors right across the country. I listened to the contributions at the start from Senators Black and Flynn. They had 16 minutes to speak and, in the space of that 16 minutes, they gave no acknowledgement or recognition of what has been done in the last number of years. Amazingly, as well as giving no recognition of what is being done for councillors, they put out incorrect information at the end of the contribution about pay for councillors. Just so-----

-----they know-----

Excuse me. It is not incorrect.

Perhaps because they were not councillors themselves, they are not aware of this.

It is not incorrect. Do not put lies down on my neck. I spoke to a county councillor who told me-----

The Senator brings in Councillor Joe Malone----

Bullshit. Absolutely not.

-----but then claims that councillors did not get any pay when his organisation was fighting hard to get an increase in pay for councillors.

The Senator can ask for 30 seconds if the Senator in possession wishes to give way, but the Senator in possession has the right to speak in the same way as Senator Flynn had.

For her own benefit I will not give way to Senator Flynn because the information is incorrect. Just so you know-----

It is not incorrect; I know for a fact that is it not incorrect. Why is he allowed to say that I am giving incorrect information?

I became a councillor in 2019, six year ago-----

Senator Flynn knows the rules.

----- and I was paid €17,000 a year. As of 1 August this year, councillors are paid €31,000.

What about the three grand they had to give back last year? What about the three grand?

That is an increase-----

Senator Ahearn, without interruption.

-----of €14,000. I suggest the Senator talks to Councillor Malone who was invited here tonight. He will confirm it because LAMA played a key role in increasing that. When we talk about actually wanting to do things to support councillors we need to recognise that over the past five or six years from previous Ministers, the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins at the moment, there has been more changes in support for councillors than ever before. That is not recognised by Senator Flynn's side. We who were councillors and proud to be councillors, know the work involved in being a councillor and are not surprised by it because we did it ourselves, know that more needs to be done. We have done an awful lot but more needs to be done. Just to put on the record what we have actually done, because the Opposition does not want to recognise it, we have introduced maternity leave. Senator Black was talking about how we need to support women but failed to mention we have introduced maternity leave and the opportunity for co-option to positions temporarily while councillors are on maternity leave. No one mentioned anything about the hybrid meetings that are now possible for people who cannot attend a meeting in person but still want to be there but because of other work, family or private commitments cannot be there. Hybrid meetings are now available. They did not talk about the current remuneration and allowances. They did not talk about how the work for councillors now is so difficult in a modern society where there are challenges in terms of security and the abuse they get. There was no mention of the Minister of State, Deputy Cummin's, increase in security allowances to €10,000 they can claim, because we recognise that nowadays for councillors it can be very challenging. There was no mention of allowances, gratuity payments, payments for service after 20 years where councillors now receive €94,000 if they do a full term of service. An awful lot has been done by this Government and the previous Government, particularly by the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, and the Minister of State, Deputy John Cummins, has followed up on it.

That does not mean that what Senator Black is talking about is wrong. It is right that we discuss it. It is right we do more to support councillors and the amendment was tabled to see what can be done from the Government's perspective to support councillors. We in the Government side will work with LAMA and AILG, and with anyone who realistically wants to make changes to support councillors, to encourage more people to get into local government and to encourage women, in particular, to be able to get into it. Let us have a realistic conversation rather than just saying that nothing is being done, there has been no increase for councillors and that nothing has been done on this side. Never in the history of the State has more been done than in the past five years to support councillors but we certainly need to do more. I will work with my colleagues and with Members in opposition to make sure that is done. We hear on a daily basis the challenges faced by councillors representing their communities and defending decisions we make here that they have to deal with on the ground. We will do everything we can to support them. It is a huge honour for all councillors to be elected.

It was the greatest honour I ever had to be elected by my community and to be elected mayor of Clonmel. We recognise that and Senator Fitzpatrick recognises that because it is such a proud thing, to be elected by one's own community to represent one's own community.

When people stand up in this Chamber talking about how they are representing councillors and speaking on behalf of councillors, they should learn the facts. They should recognise what has been done. If they do that we will work with them, but we will work with LAMA and AILG to make sure we can do more as well.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, who is no stranger to working in local government. Indeed he has served in local government and worked within the Department and I want to acknowledge his work. I also acknowledge Mr. Tim Carey who is here from the Department and heading up local government and has vast experience in it too. I acknowledge his work, the Minister of State's work and the Department's work. I thank the independent Senators who brought this Bill forward. It is a very simple Bill, with only three sections to it, but it is very focused and I commend them for bringing the amendment.

I also acknowledge the Cathaoirleach. He established the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on local government and many of the Members here were actively involved in that. There was a long protracted discussion, debate and engaging with the stakeholders and others such as sitting county managers and local government and department officials, the engagement took place in the Chamber, so it is on the public record. What was very interesting was we came up in the end with a very substantial report with 25 key recommendations and I have them here. It was very clear and did not need any explanation.

When I was first a councillor I did not get a penny, quite frankly. I handed in a bill and I scratched out in red ones that were used for political reasons. The maximum I could get was £11 or something. That meant exposing all my telephone numbers to everybody anywhere and explaining to the county manager. Anyway, times have moved on and I am glad they have.

Like Senator Ahearn, my proudest moment in political life was the first day I entered the Town Hall of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown where I grew up. Circumstances brought me there, nothing else, and I chose to live there for all of my life and I still live there and am very proud of that. I am a citizen there nearly before I am a citizen of Ireland. I feel so proud of the streets and of the place. Every day I went in there the hair stood on my back, moreso than coming into Seanad Éireann or Leinster House. I fundamentally believe in the power of local government and subsidiarity. You are effectively a bit of a parish priest, therapist, counsellor, and a whole load of things but you are an advocate too. What makes local government really important is that one is also a stakeholder in the decisions.

I am somewhat disappointed that the timed amendment is for 12 months. I would have understood had the Minister of State come in here and said we will defer this until the task force completes its work. That is reasonable and it is still open to the Government to come back earlier if it wishes, I presume. I urge the Minister of State to consider when the task force on local government completes its work - I understand that will be around Easter or a bit longer - that he might come back to the political groupings in both Houses to see whether can we bring this legislation forward slightly. I thank Councillor Malone for being here because he has been consistently advocating on behalf of councillors from LAMA, and the very distinguished AILG president, Councillor Mary Hanna Hourigan from Senator Ahearn's neck of the woods. She was here last week addressing a meeting the Independent Senator Frances Black and others organised and she made a very strong case. Councillors want to do the job but they need the support. Local government is very challenging. There are huge complexities in our communities ranging from crime, addiction, drugs to housing and a councillor is, as Senator Fitzpatrick said, the person of political interest, and that is a challenge for people.

Yes.

Many people would like to be in public life but they can give it the time due to their family commitments. Their own security, jobs and professional trajectory sometimes does not necessarily allow it. Of course we all want to support councillors but we want to do it in a meaningful and effective way. The easy option is to come in here and say it is all terrible. I am not in the business of doing that, because councillors are no eejits. They have been around for a long time. They have been around many a corner and have heard many promises from people inside and outside these Houses and they put them in their right place at each Seanad election. There is no automatic pathway into these Houses. We demonstrate our commitment to our work on a broad political agenda. People know when people are genuine and when they are committed.

I say to the proposers of this amendment, I support the amendment. I know what they are trying to do. We need also to progress. What are the needs? Is it individual secretarial services or administration services? Is it about giving councillors more money so that they can procure individual secretarial services? I do not know. However, councillors need more support. I agree with other speakers that we need to address the issue of their pensions. It is unacceptable. A councillor met me yesterday. I will not say from which party but he was on party business here and he said he has 30 years' service in the Munster region but will only get 20 years' recognition. That has to stop. That is not fair or right. However, I acknowledge there have been vast improvements, which is really important, and we can do a lot more. Maybe the day will come when we will provide legislation to allow certain councillors to be full time, if that is an option they wish to pursue.

Hear, hear.

We will try to get the Senator back there.

Is Senator Cosgrove sharing time with Senator Noonan?

Yes.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I commend Senator Black and the Civil Engagement Group on bringing forward this motion, which I am happy to support it. I echo what Senator Ahearn said. The greatest honour of my life was to be elected to Sligo County Council. Making the move from not being elected to being elected is possibly one of the biggest achievements a person can have. However, I am also disappointed by the timed amendment.

I have to acknowledge the Moorhead report. There have been huge improvements. There is no doubt about that. It is also great that a local task force is being set up, but I hope this Bill can be passed before the outcome of that task force's work. It is a great Bill. I was happy to be at the briefing relating to it.

I, too, welcome Councillor Joe Malone and commend the work of LAMA and AILG, especially in respect of new councillors. I was not on the council for long. However, I know that councillors go way beyond the call of duty in the work they do in addition to their own work. They have asked for this. I know from being a county councillor and trying to do two jobs - and I would like there to be a possibility further down the line to look at having it as a full-time role - that having administrative support would be one of the biggest things that would be of help to councillors. We all agree on that. As new Senator, when I saw the timed amendment, I did not really understand what it meant. It seems, however, that the Bill is being down the road. I will be bringing forward a fourth Bill next week, and I hope we will not get the same response, namely a 12-month delay, to that.

To get elected to the Seanad, I had to canvass all the county councils throughout the country. I tried to visit every county council, and that was what came out as most important. Councillors do not have sufficient time. They are overburdened. They are acting as councillors and therapists and are the first port of call at the coalface. We know this from being councillors. The workload is getting heavier. This is a good Bill that could alleviate the pressure to which I refer and that would encourage people to remain in place or to run for councils.

We spoke about women in politics. This has come up for Women For Election Ireland. We want to get more women involved. To do that, the administrative burden could be alleviated. I hope the amendment will not be pushed to a vote. I hope the Government will reconsider its position. If the results of the task force are going be out at Easter, perhaps matters can be expedited.

I commend Senator Black on the Bill. I am happy to support it.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Like other Members, I started my political career in local government. I spent 16 years on Kilkenny County Council. It was not always easy being the only Green in the village. I served quite a bit of that time with Councillor Joe Malone, who is one of the hardest-working councillors in the country. The work he does in LAMA, on top of his day-to-day council work, is a great credit to him.

Like other Members, I acknowledge the reforms that have taken place. I spent a lot of my Saturday nights with a baby on one knee and a laptop on the other, responding to emails. It was hugely challenging, both financially and for my family. Huge sacrifices were made trying to survive politically and to try to survive financially as a family. People take those chances because they believe in what they are doing in representing their local communities.

I looked at the reform that took place in 2014. Unfortunately, Phil Hogan's reforms tore the heart out of local government. Councillor Malone and I were members of a borough council. There was a borough council in Clonmel. There were five boroughs. The Taoiseach has been talking about a pilot reinstatement of borough and town councils. Let us look at the representation with the ratio of councillors to population since those reforms in 2014. It simply is not sustainable that councillors have to represent such a large proportion of the population. That needs to be looked at in its entirety and the borough and town councils need to be reinstated in time for the 2029 local elections. That is hugely important.

The broader urban agenda is why the concerted effort around urban development is important. The EU role, directly elected mayors and the widening roles in respect of climate and nature all put a huge legislative burden on councillors that this administrative support would go a long way towards helping to alleviate. It would ensure that they make more informed decisions in council chambers, that they are up to speed on the legalities of all the decisions they make and that we have greater transparency in local government. All these things are extremely important to all of us here, as they are to Councillor Malone and his 900-odd colleagues around the country.

I fully support the Bill. I am disappointed that we have yet another timed amendment. I ask the Minister of State to give some consideration to shortening the period involved somewhat. We have another task force kicking the can down the road yet again at a time when these reforms are urgently needed. Local government is the sleeping giant of Irish democracy. It has immense potential for transformative change. Our councillors are at the heart of that. They need to be supported in a meaningful way. That is something all of us in this Chamber agree on. I hope the Minister of State will give active consideration to that and will look at the changing role of councillors and at what they need in order to be able to carry out their work effectively.

Like my colleagues, I welcome Councillor Malone and add my voice of gratitude to LAMA and AILG for all the work they do. I speak not only as someone who was elected by councillors but also as someone who served as a town commissioner, a town councillor and a county councillor. I absolutely value the work councillors do. In 1898, my grandfather was on the very first iteration of Kildare County Council. He died when my father was seven. Some 25 years later, my father was elected in one area. Subsequently, I was elected in a different area. I come from a family that values community service and local democracy. As previous speakers mentioned, the proudest moments of my life relate to being elected at those three levels of local government and as mayor of my county. I am Kildare to the core. I am proud of all the work that happens.

I welcome this motion and the debate on it. It is not fair to say that the timed amendment is just kicking the can down the road. To be fair to the Government, there is a commitment in the programme for Government. One of the first things the Government put in place was the local democracy task force. In order for it to do its work - and the AILG and LAMA are engaging with it - there is a time-bound element relating to its report, which is due next summer. It is only fair to allow the democracy task force to deliver its report and make its recommendations on the basis of the good work that was done by the Seanad task force. However, I agree with colleagues who asked whether it will be possible to reduce the 12-month timeframe once the task force has delivered its recommendations. I ask for that to be considered.

I agree about the issue of administrative expenses for councillors. Options should be given to local councillors. I could never work full time as a county councillor because I had to pay a mortgage on my own and needed to work outside my role as a councillor. However, many now choose to work full time, and it is wonderful that they do. While I would like to see opportunities for people to work full time in local government, at this time, if there were options, some who work other jobs while also serving as councillors would certainly opt for administrative support. It is only fair to say, however, that those who work full time as councillors would prefer to have financial resources themselves, and they would deserve them.

Back in 2023, the Women's Parliamentary Caucus, of which I was chair, worked together with the Minister at the time to ensure that maternity leave was brought in for female councillors. We also worked with the Minister on ensuring that maternity leave would be brought in for Oireachtas Members. One of the regulations that came in at that time was that women on maternity leave would have the option if they did not take maternity leave to have extra admin support. If they went for co-option, they could co-opt someone to take their place within the council. To support an individual because every individual has their own different challenges, both professionally and personally, there should be a suite of measures that would suit and support that individual to help them carry out the excellent work they do. It is not just about infrastructure and setting the budget. There would be very few Christmas lights going up around the country without the councillors who are involved in that. There would be very few St. Patrick's Day parades and local arts festivals.

Something that I spoke about this morning, and I will mention again is that we have heard councillors to the fore on the radio and television over the past weekend about the horrific situation in Edenderry where two awful deaths happened. To the fore in representing the community and the shock and trying to offer support were our local councillors in Edenderry. There is no end to what any local councillor, or indeed any representative is called to do.

I raise the report from the Council of Europe's Congress of Local and Regional Authorities, CLRA. Again, our councillors do great work. The leader of the Irish delegation is Councillor Jimmy Maloney and the deputy leader is Councillor Gobnait Moynihan. A report was done in 2023, which monitored Ireland's compliance with the European Charter of Local Self-Government. That highlighted weaknesses in our local government system. It highlighted limited autonomy, weak financial independence and the need for stronger supports. I echo the call for the reinstatement of town councils. It was a sad day for democracy. They worked well even with small, limited budgets. I fully support reforms for our local authority members, but there needs to be a suite of measures and pensions need to put in place. I thank the Minister of State for being here and taking all of our messages back to the Government.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to discuss this important issue. I pay compliment to Senator Black and her colleagues for bringing this legislation forward. All of us certainly agree with the sentiments behind it. I served as a councillor for 17 years, 15 years in the city and two years on the combined city and county council before being elected here. I agree that back in those days in 1999 when I was first elected, there were very little supports for councillors. The role of female councillors has been highlighted here. When I was elected first, I was one of two female councillors out of 21. When we went into the combined council of 40 councillors, there were six females. Certainly, we have come a long way coming forward since back at the very start.

I acknowledge Councillor Malone and his colleagues in LAMA and AILG. There is a commitment in the programme for Government to a local democracy task force. I was delighted, along with my colleague Senator Kyne, to contribute to that task force recently. There were options for Senators representing the Seanad to go forward, make a presentation and answer some of the questions they had. It was an informative discussion. I pay tribute to the 14 representatives that sit on that. It is chaired by Mr. Jim Breslin. Councillor Malone is part of that as well representing LAMA. I pay tribute to them and the amount of work they have done in relation to that taskforce.

I fully agree with the sentiments that councillors need support. They need a lot more resources. A lot has been done. When I go back to my early days in local government, I had to provide my own laptop, printer, paper and everything. A lot of that has changed in that there is now support for councillors to get laptops and printers. They are provided by the local authority. There is money there for them for secretarial support. Working alongside councillors, there is a lot more scope for people to have to more supports. With the results of the task force and when the councillors are putting forward where they believe there are these loopholes and need to be supported, it is important that the Government, because it is in the programme for Government, supports the councillors and bring forward whatever legislation is needed sooner rather than later.

Other speakers raised the issue of councillors paying the PRSI and getting nothing for it. There is no pension out of it. That is a crucial issue. Many councillors dedicate their lives in a full-time role, even though it is expected to be a part-time role, are full-time. They are the first people that members of the public go to. When they have an issue, they go there for support or to find out where they can go to for advice. The role of a councillor has expanded and has become very much full time over the past number of years especially.

Speakers raised the expansion of areas. When I started off, I represented the old city ward. This was known as ward 4. I then went on to represent Limerick city south, which was two local authority areas combined. That all changed again, I lost half of the area and went out into the county. I went from being a city councillor to representing half the city and the other half in rural Limerick. There are many councillors in that situation. I support the sentiments behind what is being brought forward. Councillors need more resources and support. It needs to be looked at in terms of what the councillors bring forward as being the key areas that they see as needing supports. I am sure the Minister of State will do his best to bring forward the legislation as soon as possible. It is important that the Government reacts as soon as the task force reports. There might be one or two areas we might be able to change or support.

The House will suspend until after the Dáil vote.

We will continue with our consideration of the Bill. The Minister must come back in by order of the House at 8.10 p.m. and then Senator Frances Black will make her concluding remarks. As we have been interrupted by a Dáil vote, I will ask Members instead of the six minutes to contain their contributions to four minutes and then they will share time as we get closer to the end. We have about half an hour. I call Senator Joe Conway who has four minutes.

I will not even take four minutes because I do not want to be boiling my cabbage twice. A lot of what needs to be said has been said by my colleagues on both sides of the House. I commend the efforts of the AILG and LAMA, in working steadfastly for the benefits of councillors. I also want to commend Senators Black, Flynn, Higgins and Ruane on bringing this Bill before the House. It may not be the most judicious legislation in some ways but it is very important legislation. It is very important that this fire and flame of improving county councillors' conditions is progressing. It must not be allowed to lie. I will just illustrate that with a small and very quick story. On a balmy June evening of 2004 I turned up for my first council meeting in the Civic Offices in Tramore. While there, a gentleman - who I afterwards found out was the finance officer of Waterford County Council at the time - came up to me and asked: "Joe, can you give me your PPS number?"

I said, "Why would you want that?" He said, "Well, I'm going to have to pay you." I said, "What? Do you mean I get paid for this?" That showed the naivety of someone going into local government at the time. I waited with bated breath for my first pay cheque from Waterford County Council. It came in two weeks later, €74.18 for two weeks' work. That was the town council. Things have improved hugely since then but not enough. The Senator's proposed legislation looks for secretarial support as well. I look forward to the Minister's urgings with the task force and I hope that the Bill yields ripe fruit in the fullness of time.

The Minister of State is welcome back to the Chamber. In the last Government we debated councillors' terms and conditions with him and he always had a very receptive ear. I know the councillors have a friend when they have him in that particular role. I wish him well in it.

I commend Senator Frances Black on introducing this legislation. In principle, I have no issue in supporting it. Any opportunity we get in this House and in the Lower House to discuss the role of the county councillor is a welcome opportunity and one that we should all grasp. There is no doubt that the role of the county councillor has changed significantly in recent years and it really is a full-time job for a part-time salary.

As the previous speaker alluded to, progress has been made, but much more progress needs to be made and I think Government recognises that. It is positive that it has formed a task force on all aspects of the role of the county councillor and local authority set-ups. I commend the members of the AILG and LAMA on their input into that task force. From the feedback I am getting, it is not a talking shop. People are taking the role very seriously. I sincerely hope that there is a positive outcome to that. It is due to report by February, which is fairly optimistic bearing in mind the volume of work involved in it, and the Minister of State might give us more clarity on that. I sincerely hope it is able to stick to the strict deadline it has given itself and to all the councillors who have fed into that.

The role of the county councillor, as many speakers have alluded to this evening, it is a very expensive one. They are there in their community 24-7. They are on call wherever they go. They are meant to be experts on planning, housing, climate change, policy and economic development. The role that constitutes the councillor currently is endless and they need more help. The basic first principle is that they have to be paid for the hugely important role they do.

The amendment put forward by Government is very sensible. I plead with the authors of this legislation to reflect on that. Their Bill is very worthy, as I have said during my contribution. However, it is important that we let the work that the task force has undertaken to conclude. Nothing should overshadow that at this time. Perhaps the sentiments as expressed in Senator Black's Bill can be encompassed in the work that the task force is doing. I am certainly happy to support the Government amendment and I plead with my colleagues on the other side, Senator Black and her colleagues, to go along with that and to give the task force space to conclude the very valuable work it is doing.

May I give a minute of my time to Senator Sarah O’Reilly or does she have time allocated to her?

Could I have two?

We will get injury time.

I welcome the Minister of State. I acknowledge that decisions on timed amendments are made by Cabinet. It is important to put that on the record. Many Senators have indicated their support for the principle of the Bill, and whether that is now or in 12 months' time, it is still the principle of the Bill.

As Senators Ahearn, Fitzpatrick and O'Loughlin said, a lot of important work has been done in government over the last number of years by Ministers with responsibility for local government. Many changes have been made and we have had the work of LAMA and the AILG. I was happy to attend the local democracy task force with the Cathaoirleach, the Leas-Chathaoirleach and Senator Boyhan to highlight some of the issues and the important role councillors have. As a former councillor, I fully acknowledge the valuable role they play. A lot of things and a lot of supports have been put in place but more could be put in place.

If an administrative assistant gets a salary of €35,000 or €40,000, it means this Bill would cost about €40 million. Would councillors be better served by having an increase in salary if we were to spend an additional €40 million? Could there be changes in relation to expenses? Could there be changes and more certainty in relation to pensions? Gratuities have been mentioned. There are a lot of things that could be put in place. I accept that administrative support is needed but I do not know whether a full administrative assistant is needed or whether that money could be diverted more directly to councillors.

I have previously wondered whether cathaoirligh, for example, should have drivers. In County Galway, we have a cathaoirleach who serves an area from Clifden to Portumna and Glenamaddy to An Spidéal without a driver. Should that be looked at? I think it should. There are issues like that. People talk about why people do not get into politics, one of which is the timing of meetings. If a meeting is at 11 o'clock in the day that discommodes a full-time councillor. There are a lot of things that could be looked at.

Town councils were mentioned. At the local democracy forum, I know LAMA and the AILG said it was not their policy that we should bring back town councils. Perhaps just cause could be made for some town councils. On some town councils it was possible for someone to get elected with fewer than 100 votes. There was a view that the more peripheral areas lost out in those cases. There is a lot here. There is never a bad time or a wrong time to debate issues relating to councillors and I welcome the debate on this Bill.

I thank Senator Kyne for sharing his time with me. I am pleased to speak in support of the Bill to provide secretarial support to councillors. Councillors do a huge amount of work with little support. It is unfair to them and unfair to the communities they represent. There is a huge amount of unseen work and the financial remuneration does not reflect the hours they actually work. The Moorhead report does not consider that a councillor's job is a full-time job. It is a full-time job. It is 24-7, including weekends, Christmas Day and Easter Sunday. Councillors work every single day. I was a councillor for ten years and I was called on Christmas Day and Easter Sunday.

We know that local government is the closest form of government to the people. They are the ones with the finger on the pulse. In many cases, councillors are the first called when there is flooding on a road, when a planning issue goes wrong, when a family is at risk of homelessness, when a community group needs help navigating a 100-page form or, indeed, when there is a storm. On occasion, people called me because they were in a seriously bad way with their mental health and needed emergency help. I know from speaking to other councillors that this was not unique to me. It is not just an administrative service that councillors provide but triage for anyone in need. They are on the front line.

I am sharing time with Senator Stephenson.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I support Senator Black's Bill, which is a very sensible proposal. As someone who was a councillor for a period of time, I would say it is absolutely a full-time role.

I was proud to serve alongside Senator Garret Kelleher on Cork City Council. Aside from the support needed through secretarial support it is also important that we consider that the council is often a pipeline for national politics. If we want to attract more people from minority groups and disadvantaged groups and, indeed, more women, then we need to ensure that the role is supported and people know before they are going into it what support is available to them. Any supports absolutely have to be put in place before the next local elections in 2029. We need to ensure this happens. It is really disappointing again that we are seeing another timed amendment from the Government. This is a real trend in this Chamber and I just wanted to express disappointment.

I also want to express my disappointment about another timed amendment. I appreciate there is always an excuse for the timed amendment but it has been systematic across Opposition legislation.

This Bill is not simply an investment in our county councillors. It is really an investment in the quality, transparency and democratic integrity of local government. As we all know and has been said already, councillors carry a workload that is vast, complex and often heavily underestimated. Finding a balance between attending events, preparing and participating in meetings, and admin work like emails and research is a significant challenge. I am sure we all know councillors who can get overwhelmed with just the sheer quantity of what they need to do. Many of them are working full time on a part-time wage. Many of them might be parents or carers. All of these things make it really difficult to do the full scope of their work to the degree they would wish to, which could be countless meetings, responding to constituents at all hours, and acting as a bridge between local authorities and communities that they proudly represent.

I have heard directly from councillors who have so much admin that they choose not to submit their vouched expenditure and their own expenses because it is just an additional task that they cannot get to. They prioritise their constituency work over receiving their own expenses. This is also about retention and diversity. The lack of support pushes out parents, people in full-time work and carers. For those with second jobs or with caring responsibilities, admin is the last thing to get done. We know that the technical nature of councillors' work has also grown enormously with local authority budgets now running into the millions, accompanied by dense annual service plans, local area plans and the development plans that require careful analysis and scrutiny. There are people who struggle. I have dyslexia and there will be councillors who actually struggle with reading the content, as I would. Having that additional administrative support would allow a councillor to consume, analyse, assess and make judgments on the material they receive monthly. Councillors are expected to exercise oversight and representation on behalf of their communities and to do that without any support whatsoever, unlike ourselves and unlike the TDs in the Dáil.

This Bill is about ensuring that councillors can fulfil the mandate they were elected to carry out. It strengthens local government and local accountability and it recognises the modern complexity of local government. It supports those who give so much of their time and so much of their energy and personal life in the aid of public service. I am very proud to support the Bill and I am disappointed about the timed amendment.

I welcome guests of the Minister of State, Deputy Colm Brophy, Deputy Maeve O'Connell, and Senator Shane Curley. There is another vote in the Dáil Chamber and the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, must leave.

The vote has finished in the Dáil but another vote has been called. I ask the Whip to propose another suspension.

I propose that we suspend the House until that vote is finished.

Is that agreed?

Excuse me. On a point of order, can we extend the debate in light of that please? There are a lot of people here who have not got in. Despite my name being before the Cathaoirleach and the Seanad Office today, I have not got in to speak.

As I said, it is-----

Everybody's time will now be reduced. This is a very important matter for local government and for all our councillors around the country. People need to hear what we have to say in relation to this Bill. Can we extend the debate on the Bill?

It is a matter for the Leader of the House.

Yes.

It can be proposed when we come back.

But I would have-----

We can discuss it when we return.

Thank you.

Are we agreed to suspend the House until after the Dáil vote concludes? Agreed.

The Minister of State has indicated that he wishes to speak.

I thank the Senators for their forbearance. It looks like there will be a vote in the Dáil in approximately 20 minutes. I will stay to hear the rest of the Senators. I am taking this debate on behalf of the Minister for housing and local government, Deputy Browne. I thank Senators Black, Flynn, Ruane and Higgins for the opportunity to come before the House this evening for the Second Stage debate on this Bill, which seeks to provide administrative support to elected members of local authorities to assist them in the performance of their duties.

Fifteen Senators have spoken so far. I understand how important it is. I fully understand how important the role of the councillor is. I was a councillor. When I was listening to Senator Boyhan, it brought back memories of my first time in public life. I would have to say some of my most enjoyable days were as a councillor. It was new. It was exciting. It brought back fond memories. I was Minister of State with responsibility for local government for a relatively short period of time - I was there for approximately 16 months - but I have huge time for local councillors. I see Councillor Joe Malone from LAMA and Councillor Mary Hanna Hourigan, the president of the AILG, in the Gallery. I have huge respect for them. In the limited time I held the portfolio, I wanted to do as much as I could. Facing the challenge of work-life balance is hugely important.

I acknowledge what the proposed Bill is seeking to address. I know how well intentioned it is. Anything that improves the performance of local government is hugely important. While I believe the proposal is worthy of further consideration, the Minister, Deputy Browne, is supportive of a timed amendment for reasons I will explain shortly. First, I would like to remind the House of some of what has happened by way of improvements for councillors. I came to the local government portfolio in very late 2022 and I was there for 2023 and up to April 2024. When I came into the Department, the first thing I wanted to bring in was administrative support for councillors availing of maternity leave. I worked intensively with officials on it because I felt it was hugely important. It allows those who have recently given birth and chosen to avail of maternity leave to engage additional administrative support to assist them in their roles. For the benefit of the Senators who proposed the Bill, the Minister has tabled a timed amendment but I know how well intentioned what they are putting forward is and I acknowledge that. The maternity administrative support allowance covers expenses incurred by local authority members by allowing them to engage an individual on a part-time basis for 13 hours per week to maintain basic office duties and provide other secretarial and administrative duties for a period of 42 consecutive weeks, or longer in the case of a premature birth. The introduction of this allowance followed the introduction in 2022 of legislation which provided for the first time for councillors to take maternity leave. That legislation also provided for the possibility of appointment by co-option of an individual as a temporary substitute for a councillor who takes maternity leave or is absent due to illness or, in good faith, another reason under section 18 of the Local Government Act 2001.

In June 2023, in another initiative to enhance work-life balance, the Department launched a pilot scheme in four local authorities supporting the installation of cameras and video equipment in council chambers where the existing infrastructure was inadequate for the running of hybrid meetings. The scheme has been rolled out to 13 local authorities with almost €350,000 worth of investment by the Department. Councillors have also seen a number of other improvements in terms of administration supports to them over the past five years. When I was in the Ministry, I worked intensively with both LAMA and the AILG. They are very good. I think Councillor Malone would have been involved, even at that stage. It is something we would have worked on very much. I believe in that collaborative approach.

The Independent Review of the Role and Remuneration of Local Authority Elected Members, overseen by Ms Sara Moorhead SC and published in 2020, proposed a radical overhaul of councillor remuneration. That was commissioned by the then Minister of State with responsibility for local government, John Paul Phelan. All of the pay-related recommendations of that report were acceded to by the previous Government. For example, with effect from 1 July 2021, the salary-type payment of €18,706 that councillors received previously was replaced by a single salary-style remuneration payment of €25,788. The annual remuneration payment has since increased in line with Government pay agreements. As of 1 August, as Senator Ahearn referenced, this payment is now €31,356. It represents an increase of two thirds over the last five years. Additionally and notably, a vouched expense allowance, the local representation allowance, LRA, was introduced to replace the fixed annual rate as well as the previous optional vouched expense allowance. The LRA is worth a maximum of €5,160 annually and, importantly in the context of the debate on councillors, may be used to purchase secretarial assistance.

Another improvement at the time - the need for this was something that came up a lot in my time in the Ministry - was the introduction of a gratuity. I worked extensively with the officials at the time to bring in a revised gratuity payment for retiring councillors. I note what Members are saying here about the pension, in terms of PRSI contributions. It is something I will bring back to the Minister. The revised gratuity payment for retiring councillors that has been introduced is currently worth up to a maximum of €94,068, subject to service. A security allowance, which I introduced as well in 2023, has subsequently been increased this year to a lifetime maximum of €10,000 to cover 100% of eligible security expenses. I understand the value of what councillors do. In the limited time that I spent in this portfolio, I wanted to improve the circumstances for councillors. I mentioned that along with others, I have helped to reduce the burden on serving councillors to make the role of councillors viable, more sustainable and interesting to those entering politics.

Turning to current developments, many Senators referred to the local democracy task force, which was established in June 2025. It is in the programme for Government. It is currently progressing with its schedule with the aim of delivering a recommendation to my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Browne, in early 2026. The decision to set up the task force was informed by a substantial body of work that was undertaken to examine the functions and responsibilities of local government, particularly the work here in the Chamber and the Seanad Public Consultation Committee's report on the future of local democracy, which preceded the establishment of the task force.

I draw attention to the first recommendation of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee report, which called for the establishment of a local democracy task force. In those circumstances, I ask this House to wait for the work of the task force to conclude before seeking to progress the Bill. There is a considerable body of work under way in terms of the task force, which is chaired by Jim Breslin. It has a number of pillars. It is covering the structure, functions, governance and funding of local authorities. It includes consideration of how to rebalance power between elected councillors and the local authority executive and the potential for devolving more decision-making powers to councillors. The task force, in the course of its work, will examine the committee report as well as reports from the AILG and the Council of Europe Congress of Local and Regional Authorities, and obviously the work of LAMA as well. All these endeavours form a strong foundation for the task force.

The issue of providing councillors with enhanced and timely data to inform their work is a key consideration in providing greater input and oversight over the local authority's budget.

It is also important to note that the task force is specifically looking at which supports to provide councillors to assist them in carrying out their functions. Both the AILG and LAMA are represented on the task force. Their contribution will be important in this and other areas of the task force's work. There are four pillars on particular functions. Pillar groups will be used to provide a forum for all key stakeholders, including LAMA and AILG, to make a meaningful impact. In addition members of council representative associations, the pillar groups comprise subject matter experts from across the local authority sector and academia. By structuring it in this manner it is intended that well thought out recommendations can be brought forward for consideration by the Government.

The Government is particularly keen that when the task force, making its recommendations, considered the suitability for implementation of each. The proposal agreed by the Government on foot of the recommendations of the task force would constitute the next generation of local council reforms and will have a long-term impact on our local government sector. By establishing the task force, the Government has demonstrated a commitment to enhancing democracy at local level. We want to ensure that government across society, and particularly local government, has powers and that there is representation, particularly female representation. We need diversity across all sections of society. Representation of all areas of society is important at every level. We have to make it more family friendly. When you get people from all sections of society, male and female, you get the best results because everyone is represented in the room. We will not agree on everything, but the tension and the synergies you get bring about really good and sustainable policy.

By establishing the task force, the Government has demonstrated a commitment to enhancing democracy at a local level. As I outlined the Bill represents an effort to address the workload of elected members of local authorities many of whom balance their part-time roles with employment or caring responsibilities. It is true that over the past 20 years the role and workload of councillors has increased in terms of structures and the work they do. Senators will appreciate that the programme for Government refers to supports to further enable councillors to carry out their work.

I have already acknowledged that this is a well-intentioned proposal. I do not wish to question that in any way. However, Senators will appreciate that the Government has a body of work under way with the task force. It is a structured body of work. It is independently chaired. Jim Breslin is a very fine former public official. LAMA and AILG are represented and it draws across expertise. We have to continually improve the situation for councillors. We have made great strides, and that has been acknowledged. The task force is required to deliver recommendations to the Government in the early part of next year at which time the Government will consider the recommendations and make policies for implementation including legislative amendments if necessary. The timed amendment will allow for the proposal contained in this Bill to be considered in the round and in the context of the task force's recommendations.

When the task force reports, the Minister, Deputy Browne, and the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, want it to make recommendations that are suitable and sustainable. Those recommendations will come up for discussion. We very much welcome everyone’s feedback. We are all practising politicians here. Councillors play an absolutely vital role. I admire what they do. Many of us came through the councillor route. It is where we learned our craft. There are people who have served on them for many years and there are a lot of young people coming in. That provides vibrancy as well. I would never question people's motives. I understand where Senators are coming from. We would obviously like to work in partnership, so the Senators should allow the timed amendment to go through. We do not want to do anything that would in any way not allow the task force to carry out its work. The timed amendment would allow consideration of the proposals contained in the Bill in the round in the context of the task force's recommendations.

People tabling proposals is always welcome. We may not always agree, but the intention behind what is proposed here is to improve councillors’ circumstances. That is something we all want. I thank Senators Black, Flynn and Ruane for introducing this Bill and for the detailed consideration that they and other Members have given to the issue. I hope I will be able to stay for the remainder of the debate. If a vote is called in the Dáil and I am not able to remain, I apologise.

This has been a very welcome debate. I will speak briefly on the key points that came up. People spoke about the task force. The commonality was the pension issue. I will bring that back to the Minister. PRSI was mentioned. I expect that these are all matters that will get due consideration. Again, I thank Senators for the debate and look forward to being able to listen to the remainder of the contributions.